Political Crossfire Forums

[Kindred]

Congress Extends Patriot Act for One Month



WASHINGTON - Congress on Thursday approved a one-month extension of the Patriot Act and sent it to President Bush in a pre-Christmas scramble to prevent many of its anti-terrorism provisions from expiring Dec. 31.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act

[nj right wing]

sweet deal. phone line tap away! :)

[psholtz]

This is the dumbest decision I've ever seen in my entire life..

Why bother extending *anything* for 1 month?? Insane..

[F'losrix]

One month too many, IMO.

[George W Bush]

Time to protest this antiamerican legislation by giving them something to spy on me about, taking away the resources in protest, that would best be used in trapping true criminals.

How to do this:

- Buy/borrow books about Nuclear Technology
- Learn to speak Arab
- Wear a towel over my head while home
- Use certain carnivore keywords in telephone conversations (you know: things like BOMB, AMERICA, BLACK WIND)
- Maintain a negative opinion about America (this is still legal, for now)
- Put American flag stickers (upside down) on my car
- Send the ashes of a burnt flag to Washington DC
- Keep living as I do by not breaking any laws.

Might as well give them something to spy on me about, right?
Meanwhile, I hope to upset their game plan when the folks they should be focusing on get away.

Didnt Ghandi say something about non-violent protest? Let the fun begin.

[nigeline]

At least it was only for five weeks rather than five years. It's bought more bargaining time, but if you ask me, I am a bit freaked.

[Alula]

I think the USA is the Bomb I was born in 1979 and our slang is going to put
us in our graves. :roll: All joking aside and that is no joke. What am I
going to do I have a problem where I speak my mind without thinking.
That is partially why I stay at home I swear too much and it just comes flying out of my mouth. Am I a patriot. Define Patriot. To me it means
I as a mentally and physically challenged person has the right when I feel
pain to cuss up a storm if I want to in my own home, if I do it in public I
apologize. I'm easily scared and quite jumpy because of severe panic ...
you will sometimes hear me cuss quite loudly in public and its not in my
immediate control. So does this patriot act have a provision for people like me?

[Protostar]

Skeptical Mystic wrote: One month too many, IMO.

Agreed.

[darthsaki]

Hey.

I haven't really gotten my feet wet yet, so I'm just trying to get some things straight before I dive in. About this Patriot Act, what are the Pros and Cons for each side? All I know about it is what I've heard off-hand from people around me. I live in a primarily Democrat dominated town (a college town), surrounded by primarily Right-Wing suburbs, so I might have a pretty good idea of each persons side, assuming that those are, as usual, the two sides.

Pros
The Government, or NSA, which ever is more appropriate, will have the means to tap into and hopefully catch terrorists within the US with the ultimate goal to prevent further attacks

Cons
The fact that the everything the Government looks through will, in the end, not all have relevance or be helpful, along with the unrest among the public of the Government looking through their private things, and the rights that may infringe on.

I'm saying may because in the past, I'm pretty sure, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the taking away of rights for national security, other than Andrew Jackson's dabble with it.

Here are some more questions,

The Democrats are supporting it? Can anyone tell me why this is?
The Republicans are against it? If so why is Bush apparently supporting it?
And if we have a Republican dominated senate and house, how did it get extended? Or is that just it, has the final blow been dealt and is it limping away to die by itself?

Hope you can clear these questions up for me, thanks.

- Martin

Edit: Also what does the acronym GOP stand for as in:
"Some civil liberties safeguards had been inserted into legislation for renewing that law, but Senate Democrats and a small group of GOP senators blocked it anyway, arguing that more safeguards were needed."

[liford]

darthsaki wrote: Hey.

I haven't really gotten my feet wet yet, so I'm just trying to get some things straight before I dive in. About this Patriot Act, what are the Pros and Cons for each side? All I know about it is what I've heard off-hand from people around me. I live in a primarily Democrat dominated town (a college town), surrounded by primarily Right-Wing suburbs, so I might have a pretty good idea of each persons side, assuming that those are, as usual, the two sides.

Pros
The Government, or NSA, which ever is more appropriate, will have the means to tap into and hopefully catch terrorists within the US with the ultimate goal to prevent further attacks

Cons
The fact that the everything the Government looks through will, in the end, not all have relevance or be helpful, along with the unrest among the public of the Government looking through their private things, and the rights that may infringe on.

I'm saying may because in the past, I'm pretty sure, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the taking away of rights for national security, other than Andrew Jackson's dabble with it.

Here are some more questions,

The Democrats are supporting it? Can anyone tell me why this is?
The Republicans are against it? If so why is Bush apparently supporting it?
And if we have a Republican dominated senate and house, how did it get extended? Or is that just it, has the final blow been dealt and is it limping away to die by itself?

Hope you can clear these questions up for me, thanks.

- Martin

Edit: Also what does the acronym GOP stand for as in:
"Some civil liberties safeguards had been inserted into legislation for renewing that law, but Senate Democrats and a small group of GOP senators blocked it anyway, arguing that more safeguards were needed."

You pretty much have the gist of the Patriot Act. The act was put into place after 9/11 with the shell of "preventing terrorism."

What's a bit ironic to me though, is that the Republicans base their platform on lessening the strength of the government and giving more power to the people. What the Patriot Act does is, essentially, give the government an enormous amount of power over the public and overrides the civil liberties of all of us. It completely contradicts the Republican philosophy.

9/11 obviously clouded alot of people's judgement, and understandably so. Now, I think both parties are pretty divided between security and civil liberties. I'm sure consistency in voting records probably plays a role here too. So many senators don't want to be called out in the next election for voting for the Patriot Act the first time, then rejecting it a few years later. This is simply a positively-named (Patriot) mistake that was passed based on post-9/11 emotions, rather than logic, and now has turned into an unnecessarily complex issue.

The Democrats, in general, are against the act. Many Republicans have gotten carried away with "being strong on terrorism" and are supporting it. A small amount are actually against it though.

I have a feeling the act will be rejected once the short extension is up in June. As time goes by, more Republicans will come to their senses and realize this act does more harm than good. We can be tough on terrorism, but not when it compromises the public's privacy. We are a free nation, after all.

"GOP" is another term for the Republican party. It stands for "Grand Old Party," or even more old school "Gallant Old Party." Some media sources (ie the Wall Street Journal) have stopped using the term because it's antiquated and many people (like yourself) don't know what it means. Personally, I think the term sounds like "Good Old Boys".

[darthsaki]

Alright thanks.

Another question, what the Patriot Act passed with the intent of screening the public for terrorists or screening suspects for proof of plots?

Also, isn't the Democrat philosophy a small and powerful government? If I'm wrong tell me, but why wouldn't the Democrats then support the act?

Also this link at the top of this thread, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act, says this:

Quote: Democrats were pleased with a short-term extension, whether for six months or just a few weeks.

At first I took this to mean they were glad that it was extended, period, or is it saying ther were glad the extension was short term?

-Martin

[liford]

darthsaki wrote: Alright thanks.

Another question, what the Patriot Act passed with the intent of screening the public for terrorists or screening suspects for proof of plots?

Also, isn't the Democrat philosophy a small and powerful government? If I'm wrong tell me, but why wouldn't the Democrats then support the act?

Also this link at the top of this thread, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act, says this:

Quote: Democrats were pleased with a short-term extension, whether for six months or just a few weeks.

At first I took this to mean they were glad that it was extended, period, or is it saying ther were glad the extension was short term?

-Martin

That's a good question. I'm sure the act focuses on particular criteria (country of origin, known personal connections, probably even religion).

There is a wide spectrum of Democrats, as there are Republicans. Most Dems favor a powerful government, yes. However, Democrats value civil liberties above all else. Civil liberties would override the desire for a more powerful government. Since the current administration has moved in, and Democrats have lost all power, their views have changed a bit. They seem to be fearful of a Big Brother scenario with no power to themselves. It hasn't always been that way though.