Political Crossfire Forums

Rico · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Michigan/Canada

I can't believe there isn't a thread on this already, so I might as well start it. Basically, just state your sexual orientation. You can add whatever details you want, as long as we get where you swing. I'm more interested in the poll, personally. Just want to see what the percentages are, so don't forget to vote in the poll.

I'm not going to get into transgender issues. Basically, your gender is either male or female, regardless of whether it's the gender you were born with or not. If you want to add that you are transgender in your post, please do. I'm not trying to discriminate here, I just don't want to make things too detailed here.

As for myself, I'm a bisexual who has a preference for the opposite sex. I've dated girls my entire life, so my gay experience is zilch. However, I am starting to get a little intimate with one of my bisexual male friends recently, so we'll see how that turns out...

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Sexual Orientation Thread

Rico wrote: Basically, your gender is either male or female, regardless of whether it's the gender you were born with or not.
Except it's not. Gender actually runs along a spectrum. Most people fall into a narrow range at either end that we recognize as male or female, traditionally based on a doctor's examination of genitalia at the time of birth. Then there are the intersexed, whose genitals may be neither fully male or female in appearance, or whose gender based on examination of the genitalia alone may not match their genetic gender. Some intersexed people don't even know there's something different going on until other health issues arise or they turn out to be infertile.

More info at this link:

http://www.isna.org/

Rico · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Michigan/Canada

Skeptical Mystic wrote: Rico wrote: Basically, your gender is either male or female, regardless of whether it's the gender you were born with or not.
Except it's not. Gender actually runs along a spectrum. Most people fall into a narrow range at either end that we recognize as male or female, traditionally based on a doctor's examination of genitalia at the time of birth. Then there are the intersexed, whose genitals may be neither fully male or female in appearance, or whose gender based on examination of the genitalia alone may not match their genetic gender. Some intersexed people don't even know there's something different going on until other health issues arise or they turn out to be infertile.

More info at this link:

http://www.isna.org/

I think you're referring to sex. Sex is based on what your physical characteristics you have.

I'm referring to gender, which is based on what you feel you are. My sex may be male, but my gender may be female. That's what a transgender person would feel, and even intersexed people must know what gender they feel they are.

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21589 Location: Minnesota

My better half and I had a "discussion" the other day. I was making the point that your biochemistry determines alot of things such as your sexual orientation, and that 'gender' is a meaningless buzzword as all that matters is your sex. She then tells me about her freind whos father now dresses as a woman but still has his manliness attached but who is still attracted to women. So apparetly this confused person thinks HE is a lesbian.

Now this really doesn't make much sense to me. Testosterone and estrogen play a huge role in people's sexual drives. I don't see how someone can have a medical condition where they somehow think they are the opposite sex, unless they have a severe hormonal dysfuntion (but then one would think they would be attracted to their own sex so I can't wrap my head around it), which could potentially be curable.

F'losrix

Rico wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: Rico wrote: Basically, your gender is either male or female, regardless of whether it's the gender you were born with or not.
Except it's not. Gender actually runs along a spectrum. Most people fall into a narrow range at either end that we recognize as male or female, traditionally based on a doctor's examination of genitalia at the time of birth. Then there are the intersexed, whose genitals may be neither fully male or female in appearance, or whose gender based on examination of the genitalia alone may not match their genetic gender. Some intersexed people don't even know there's something different going on until other health issues arise or they turn out to be infertile.

More info at this link:

http://www.isna.org/

I think you're referring to sex. Sex is based on what your physical characteristics you have.

I'm referring to gender, which is based on what you feel you are. My sex may be male, but my gender may be female. That's what a transgender person would feel, and even intersexed people must know what gender they feel they are.
I see - thanks for the clarification. But I still have to disagree in part. While it is true that in the past most intersexed persons have identified as either male or female, that is largely due to it being a convention of a culture that insists on there being only 2 genders. There is a movement within the intersex community to put a stop to doctors automatically 'fixing' their sexual organs and making them conform to ideas about gender identity. Many do not strongly identify as male or female.

Edit: And I would seriously question the necessity of making anyone choose one or the other.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject:

John Galt wrote: My better half and I had a "discussion" the other day. I was making the point that your biochemistry determines alot of things such as your sexual orientation
This isn't accepted as fully proved. It certainly may be a factor of influence, but probably not a determinant in whole.

Quote: and that 'gender' is a meaningless buzzword as all that matters is your sex.
Why do only the physical parts matter? I should think that the emotional/mental component is just as important - if not more so - in formulating one's gender identity.

Quote: She then tells me about her freind whosfather now dresses as a woman but still has his manliness attached but who is still attracted to women. So apparetly this confused person thinks HE is a lesbian.
But is he really 'confused'? Or are we the ones who are confused by his failure to conform to our ideas about sex/gender/sexual orientation?

Quote: Now this really doesn't make much sense to me.
You'll find there's a lot in life that doesn't make much sense, at least on the surface.

Quote: Testosterone and estrogen play a huge role in people's sexual drives. I don't see how someone can have a medical condition where they somehow think they are the opposite sex, unless they have a severe hormonal dysfuntion (but then one would think they would be attracted to their own sex so I can't wrap my head around it), which could potentially be curable.
Sexual drives and gender identity are not synonymous. Whether or not there is a medical component to one's feeling transgendered is something I don't think we've fully established yet. There simply is a great deal about sex/gender/sexual orientation that we still don't know, and it makes no sense to form negative opinions about people's differences in these areas based on incomplete data, which may lead one to flawed conclusions.

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 13037 Location: upstate NY

Heterosexual. I would classify myself as having average masculinity.

Valdimar · Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 711 Location: San Francisco

My preferences are interesting. I know I have expressed myself as gay, but I would really have to say that I am Bisexual with a much stronger preference for men. My mannerisms are all over the map, but have a stronger weight on the masculine side. I find myself attracted highly to masculinity. I have dated women in the past and enjoyed all of them. Does this mean that maybe someday a woman will sweep me off my feet? It's possible....

Prole · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 2319 Location: Edinburgh

I regard myself as male and heterosexual.

Those are pretty constricting terms, as gender (and therefore which gender you find yourself attracted two) can hardly be dichotomized so easily in terms of everyone's preferences, but for the sake of the poll that is what I am.

LDA · Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 508 Location: Raleigh, NC

I'm heterosexual, and a male (I think). Then again, I may be a "female," which would make me a homosexual. However, I am equipped with a penis, but this doesn't seem to have any bearing on whether or not I am male, or female. I am human in appearance, but I feel that I was meant to be a lion with a heart of gold.

Now, that brings up an interesting point: If I'm male, but I feel female, but I like females, am I a lesbian? Or am I heterosexual? I'm thankful that fate has not deemed me worthy of such a lifestyle conundrum.

F'losrix · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:55 am Post subject:

I identify as male and homosexual. This does not mean that I don't on occasion find something attractive about a woman. It means that whatever feelings I might have towards women are miniscule in comparison to the depth and breadth of the attraction I feel towards men.

As for how I appear to others, you probably wouldn't pick me out as gay at first sight. You might figure it out if you watched me long enough to see how I react to men vs. women. You would probably start to get a clue if you talked with me for awhile, as my interests aren't generally those associated with the stereotype of a 'manly' man (I don't care about cars, have only a passing interest in sports, I enjoy artistic pursuits, etc.) I can also be a bit chatty - I don't reflect the taciturn profile we typically associate with being male. But I don't stand out as overly effeminate in my mannerisms, and I don't have the obsessions with fashion, the theatre or music divas that comprise the usual stereotype of gay men.

George W Bush · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject:

wheres the choice for ASEXUALS?

curisz · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 2112 Location: chicago

I'm a straight male.

Many years ago when i was in college i thought I might be bi, and one night I was drunk and told a gay friend I'd give it a try. Well, we got as far as kissing and then both of us could tell it was just wrong and stopped. No matter how much I liked my friend, It just didn't work for me.

I think the reason I thought I might be bi is because i was forming relations with male friends on a deeper and more profound level than I ever had before, and was confusing those feelings of friendship type love with romantic feelings.

End result, I am now 100% confident in my straightness.

rainidame · Joined: 22 Apr 2005 Posts: 685 Location: in the dark

John Galt wrote: My better half and I had a "discussion" the other day. I was making the point that your biochemistry determines alot of things such as your sexual orientation, and that 'gender' is a meaningless buzzword as all that matters is your sex. She then tells me about her freind whos father now dresses as a woman but still has his manliness attached but who is still attracted to women. So apparetly this confused person thinks HE is a lesbian.

Now this really doesn't make much sense to me. Testosterone and estrogen play a huge role in people's sexual drives. I don't see how someone can have a medical condition where they somehow think they are the opposite sex, unless they have a severe hormonal dysfuntion (but then one would think they would be attracted to their own sex so I can't wrap my head around it), which could potentially be curable.

Similar story, best friends brother had a sex change to become a Lesbian. . . this always confuses me as I here it is quite common.

To answer the question, I am a very small woman, since I've been a nude model a few times I'm going say not too bad looking. But I am a very masculine personality, very nuts and bolts, problem solver, hate whining and whiners, strict disciplinarian.

After my ex divorced me essentially because he feels immasculated by the facts that I not only was suzy homemaker (cooking, quilting, decorating, mommy, master seamstress), but also tended the car, the yard, the remodelling, etc (for example the best present he ever gave me was a sawzall). . . anyway I DECIDED I should become a butch dyke. Not happening. I tried, but just can't go there, so I would say that is when I realized that in spite of personality; genetics are involved in homosexuality or maybe better said, I believe now that it IS NATURE not nuture.

So now I guess I am asexual as I am too self sufficient for men, and too hetero for women. Oh, well, more remodelling projects! :)

Protostar · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject:

Skeptical Mystic wrote: I don't care about cars, have only a passing interest in sports, I enjoy artistic pursuits, etc.

I wouldn't. I have no interest in cars unless mine is f***ing up. And I don't care for sports period (unless it's Rally Sport racing). So no, if I talked to you this wouldn't clue me in.

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 13037 Location: upstate NY

I have found it interesting that two people have "tried" to be gay. they based their atempts on the fact that they were either forming close relationships with the same gender or did not have gender specific personality traits. I think on some level we all have some traits that are not 100% masculine or feminine. It would seem to me that regardless of your interests or ability to form close relationships with the same sex, what a person is physically attracted to should be the determining factor as to whether or not they are gay.

rainidame · Joined: 22 Apr 2005 Posts: 685 Location: in the dark

OOtimh, Should be, but there are two things that come to mind straight away. ONE, since we lived/live in a homophobic society I wasn't sure if my hetero-ness was real or reactive.

Secondly when on a regular basis one "looses" ones mates because out of bedroom personality isn't in line with society's gender personality rules; I guess one just wonders if one could manage fitting in with a mate wherein 90%(out of bed) seems better suited and to heck with the 10% (in bed) where it doesn't; instead of the other way around.

I personally would like to see sex and marriage NOT have to be the same. I mean really how many couples of both pursuasions do we all know who are having extra affairs, often having no sex at home, and yet the day in day out relationship at home is good and true partnership is happening. Even within each sexual realm, usually one would rather have sex with slight degenerates, but wants to coexist with a nice guy or gal?

LDA · Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 508 Location: Raleigh, NC

Skeptical Mystic wrote: I don't care about cars, have only a passing interest in sports, I enjoy artistic pursuits, etc.

I find this somewhat...insulting? I'm not sure what you see as the average guy. I don't care about sports, and I don't care about cars. I'm a pretty avid gamer, I like politics, and I enjoy "artistic pursuits." If then makes me gay, then I guess I am. I try not to make generalizations about homosexuals, and I hope you would not make generalizations about heterosexual men. =P It's this kind of stigma that really makes life hard for us men, especially the ones that have to deal with the ultimately irrational females.

F'losrix · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject:

LDA wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: I don't care about cars, have only a passing interest in sports, I enjoy artistic pursuits, etc.

I find this somewhat...insulting? I'm not sure what you see as the average guy. I don't care about sports, and I don't care about cars. I'm a pretty avid gamer, I like politics, and I enjoy "artistic pursuits." If then makes me gay, then I guess I am. I try not to make generalizations about homosexuals, and I hope you would not make generalizations about heterosexual men. =P It's this kind of stigma that really makes life hard for us men, especially the ones that have to deal with the ultimately irrational females.
Sure, they are generalizations and I understand fully that not every straight guy fits them. My point is that a lot of people still don't get that. My statement reflects the stereotypes used in the environment in which I was raised, and what I continue to see applied by my own family and friends. Moreover, any guy expressing an interest in something that doesn't involve getting dirty or bruised is automatically suspect in some circles.

And yes - that does make life difficult not only for gay men but for their straight counterparts who don't fit the unrealistic expectations of society with regard to gender stereotyping.

F'losrix · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject:

00timh wrote: It would seem to me that regardless of your interests or ability to form close relationships with the same sex, what a person is physically attracted to should be the determining factor as to whether or not they are gay.
Trouble is, you're buying into the mischaracterization that being gay is only a 'sexual' orientation. It's a lot more than that. Physical attraction and the manifestations of it are strong factors, but they aren't all there is to the story.

Many (if not most) gay guys realize during childhood that they're more strongly attracted to other boys than girls - long before they develop any understanding of the sexual component of attraction. This goes way beyond the whole 'all boys start off thinking girls have cooties' routine and it's not a case of 'arrested development'. Many of us relate to our female friends quite well, and don't necessarily find the idea of sexual relations with a woman to be repulsive. It's just that women don't spark our interest the way that men do - and that includes in non-sexual ways.