Political Crossfire Forums

[JCool333]

I wanted o here some opinions on how Bnai Yisrael (Sons of Israel) behaved whie they were in the desert. Many say that they are bad people who just complain...

BUT, think about us today. Could swe survive without a cell phone or a computer, let alone meat. Imagine if all you had to eat for years was honey bread (lets save the manna discussion for later), wouldn;t you want better? Wouldn't you forget all the miracles? I can't say I would or wouldn't, as I don't know, but I can imagine how tough it would be.

And, then remember that they did no major wrongs for about 39 years. Do you realize how amazing that is? I have been with the army in the desert for a week and half (not at a base) and I was miserable, so I can;t even imagine how tough forty years would be.

Anyway, I just wanted to see your thoughts, so enough of mine.

[Mailech]

JCool333 wrote: I wanted o here some opinions on how Bnai Yisrael (Sons of Israel) behaved whie they were in the desert. Many say that they are bad people who just complain...

BUT, think about us today. Could swe survive without a cell phone or a computer, let alone meat. Imagine if all you had to eat for years was honey bread (lets save the manna discussion for later), wouldn;t you want better? Wouldn't you forget all the miracles? I can't say I would or wouldn't, as I don't know, but I can imagine how tough it would be.

And, then remember that they did no major wrongs for about 39 years. Do you realize how amazing that is? I have been with the army in the desert for a week and half (not at a base) and I was miserable, so I can;t even imagine how tough forty years would be.

Anyway, I just wanted to see your thoughts, so enough of mine.

That is interesting thought, something that I have thought of. The Torah and Neviim are always very critical of the Jewish people. And although it doesn't come across that way, alot of the critisism is you are doing ok, but you should be doing better. This is somewhat based on some tapes I heard from Rav Avigdor Miller Z"L

I think that part of this is because Jews have always been held up to group responsibilites. Like when Achan took the spoils from Jericho everyone is punished by losing a battle and in that battle 37(?) people were killed. Why, because Kol Yisroel Areivim Zeh LaZeh, all Jews are responsible one for the other. So when one sins, if others allow that person to continue, they share in the blame. So when G-d tells Moshe that He will destroy all of Israel because of the sin of the Golden Calf, how many people really sinned? There were like 3000 who were killed for being the real offenders, that is like 0.1% of the population, but G-d was willing to destroy us all for that percentage.

Similiarly there is a section in Gemara Shabbos showing how Reuvein did not really sin as described, that the sons of Eli and Shmuel did not sin as described. There are some more.

The point that I am trying to make is that the Torah condemns the Isrealites in the dessert as being so bad. But what are they punished for, asking for water in the dessert, for asking for some meat instead of the same breadish thing for 40 years straight, for showing concern over the fact that they, a group of ex-slaves, may not be able to defeat the Cananites. If I was in the same situation, I don't know that I would fare much better.

In my opinion they were punished mostly because of how they said it, not what they said. They were on such a high level, being able to witness the giving of the Torah at Sinai, that all the more was expected of them. So these minor infractions of asking the wrong way were deemed as big offenses, because they should have doen better.