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Nathyn
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 7341
Location: The Great Satan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: What's your opinion of Cherem? |
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I said that I've heard Jews tell me that Jesus and Marx ceased to be Jews by totally rejected Judaism. Well, I think that when they said that, they probably meant cherem, especially in Jesus' case.
What's your opinion of Cherem?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherem |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's underutilized. I know a few people I'd smack with a herem. :) |
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Mailech
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 2537
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I think that you are confusing two things. When people say that certain people cease to be Jewish. That means that they cease to be part of a category called Achicha, 'your brother', which has specific ramifications on certain commandments. This person who ceases to be part of this is called either an apikores (heretic) or a mumar lehachis (sinner for spite) For exact qualifications in this see Maimonides Laws of Teshuva.
So I would place Jesus in that category.
As for Marx, well while definitionally, he and alot of others would be in this category, there is a technical difficulty, that in order to be placed in these categories, you need to recieve proper warning of the ramifications for your actions, since there are none that qualify to do that today, I don't think that he would be included.
Cherem on the other hand is a punishment, whereas the other is a reality. |
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Mailech
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 2537
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Duchifas wrote: I think it's underutilized. I know a few people I'd smack with a herem. :)
Me too, if only it would be enforced. Most notably, those mamzerim who manage to get their face on the cover of the newspapers, for not so good things. |
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ToonArmyIsComing
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 5888
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Duchifas wrote: I think it's underutilized. I know a few people I'd smack with a herem. :)
A tool for ostracism ... like it's not already used in subtle ways by the "holier than though" religious people. :roll: |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Duchifas wrote: I think it's underutilized. I know a few people I'd smack with a herem. :)
A tool for ostracism ... like it's not already used in subtle ways by the "holier than though" religious people. :roll:
Note the smiley after my post. To clarify, I think it is underutilized for criminals like Peres, Beilin, Sarid, etc. Not for the average Jew who doesn't fit in or doesn't care to observe the law. |
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Mailech
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 2537
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Duchifas wrote: I think it's underutilized. I know a few people I'd smack with a herem. :)
A tool for ostracism ... like it's not already used in subtle ways by the "holier than though" religious people. :roll:
OUCH! can your brush strokes be any wider? |
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Nathyn
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 7341
Location: The Great Satan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| It's just sort of like an ignore feature IRL. |
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