Political Crossfire Forums

eynon

Just curious(cause I'm totally ignorant), how Muslims on this forum felt about fellow children of Abraham(Christians, Jews).....are virtuous members of those faiths also in god's favor, or is Islam the only way according to your beliefs?

Just wondering cause as a Christian I've met Muslims who definatley seems to have god's spirit upon them, and who were godly people, so I'm definalty open to the idea of god blessing all those who call on him, what'd you think?

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1634

well its good to know that there are some people who are willing to understand islam in this forum.....

okay...
we, as muslims, do believe in the other prophets besides Mohammed (bpuh)
and we do believe that christianity and judaism are religions from allah (god)
however, we only believe that islam is the only way because when allah presented christianity and judaism people refused it and changed the contents of the books (bible and torah), so islam is the only way....

hope it is a good answer

eynon · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject:

Muslima wrote: well its good to know that there are some people who are willing to understand islam in this forum.....

okay...
we, as muslims, do believe in the other prophets besides Mohammed (bpuh)
and we do believe that christianity and judaism are religions from allah (god)
however, we only believe that islam is the only way because when allah presented christianity and judaism people refused it and changed the contents of the books (bible and torah), so islam is the only way....

hope it is a good answer

thanks, so do Muslims believe that other people of the book can be in god's favor even if our theology has some flaws?

pharaoh · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject:

Eynon81 wrote: Muslima wrote: well its good to know that there are some people who are willing to understand islam in this forum.....

okay...
we, as muslims, do believe in the other prophets besides Mohammed (bpuh)
and we do believe that christianity and judaism are religions from allah (god)
however, we only believe that islam is the only way because when allah presented christianity and judaism people refused it and changed the contents of the books (bible and torah), so islam is the only way....

hope it is a good answer

thanks, so do Muslims believe that other people of the book can be in god's favor even if our theology has some flaws?

well there are verses in the koran that praises chrisitans and jews (people of the book) who do good deeds and believe in god.
However, any man or women that know that Islam is a divine religion and refuse to convert he/she will definitely go to hell because of their disobedience and arrogance.
God chosed Islam as the right religion to all human beings. If you live according to the koran rules and laws and the habites of prophet Muhammed you will enjoy happiness and success on earth and eternal happiness in heaven.
God wants us to worship him and to do good deeds on earth, the best and only true way to do so is to be a muslim. On the other hand, by being a muslim you will feel such peace at heart that you never felt before. Just read what new converts said about what they first felt when they converted to Islam. Almost all of them said that they felt a strange and previsouly unknow feeling of peace and rest.

sub_zer0 · Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 52

Muslima wrote: well its good to know that there are some people who are willing to understand islam in this forum.....

okay...
we, as muslims, do believe in the other prophets besides Mohammed (bpuh)
and we do believe that christianity and judaism are religions from allah (god)
however, we only believe that islam is the only way because when allah presented christianity and judaism people refused it and changed the contents of the books (bible and torah), so islam is the only way....

hope it is a good answer

The Bible was not changed. If the Koran is of God why does the Bible - Gods real word contradict it?

pharaoh · Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:

sub_zer0 wrote: Muslima wrote: well its good to know that there are some people who are willing to understand islam in this forum.....

okay...
we, as muslims, do believe in the other prophets besides Mohammed (bpuh)
and we do believe that christianity and judaism are religions from allah (god)
however, we only believe that islam is the only way because when allah presented christianity and judaism people refused it and changed the contents of the books (bible and torah), so islam is the only way....

hope it is a good answer

The Bible was not changed. If the Koran is of God why does the Bible - Gods real word contradict it?

The bible was changed and you can find this by yourself by checking some good sites on the internet. As you probably know, the bible was originally written many years after Jesus was raised by god (or dead in your own religion) by what you call "saints". What proof do you have that they wrote the bible under divine guidance? What proof do you have that the bible wasnt modified since then? Do you know that there is a verse or 2 in the bible that accuses the Jews of modifying the old testament?! Which is ofcourse half of the bible.

eynon · Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject:

Quote: On the other hand, by being a muslim you will feel such peace at heart that you never felt before. Just read what new converts said about what they first felt when they converted to Islam. Almost all of them said that they felt a strange and previsouly unknow feeling of peace and rest.

That sounds familair :-D

When I converted to Christianity I had the same thing happen....warmth, peace, rest....it was strange, like a shower of gods' love, on demand. Truely he is great :-D

pharaoh · Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:28 am Post subject:

Eynon81 wrote: Quote: On the other hand, by being a muslim you will feel such peace at heart that you never felt before. Just read what new converts said about what they first felt when they converted to Islam. Almost all of them said that they felt a strange and previsouly unknow feeling of peace and rest.

That sounds familair :-D

When I converted to Christianity I had the same thing happen....warmth, peace, rest....it was strange, like a shower of gods' love, on demand. Truely he is great :-D

What was your past religion and what made you believe that Christianity is the right thing for you?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Christians and Jews aren't Kuffr (that means infidel), but al-i-kitab (a person of the book)

eynon · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject:

pharaoh wrote: Eynon81 wrote: Quote: On the other hand, by being a muslim you will feel such peace at heart that you never felt before. Just read what new converts said about what they first felt when they converted to Islam. Almost all of them said that they felt a strange and previsouly unknow feeling of peace and rest.

That sounds familair :-D

When I converted to Christianity I had the same thing happen....warmth, peace, rest....it was strange, like a shower of gods' love, on demand. Truely he is great :-D

What was your past religion and what made you believe that Christianity is the right thing for you?

athiest/agnostic.......as to my convertion, well it's a long story, but I'll be brief; basically the more I learned about the world the more I learned that something was not right and that my faith in humanity was misplaced. Plus I was constantly plauged with a emptiness that no amount of booze, sex, working-out or studying of human wisdom could fill. Basically I did everything I could to make myself happy, filled my life with fun, physical fitness, plus a heafty dose of cultural and intellectucal pursuits. All the things my cultures says should make me happy :wink:

Well I wasn't, I was stressed, scared, and empty. On top of all that I was starting to rationalize to myself the virtues of well.....evil. Afterall if there is no god, then why should I not do everything I can to satify my needs?

Ok so, I was taking summer classes at my university and had a very long drive both to and from school. I had to leave very early in the morning, and so I'd listen to this minister named James Dobsen while I was driving, because what he said usually made me angry and would wake me up.

Well after him another mininister came on name Chuck Swindol.....well this guy most definatley did not make me angry.....his message was so full of love and wisdom, yet so simple, that it moved me a great deal. After class on my ride home another minister name Jim Ferguson was on, and again, his messages were so full of love, joy, warmth, and wisdom that I would often take a longer rout home just so I could hear his whole message.

What struck me most at this time was that both these ministers were not "educated men".....they came from simple backgrounds, but spoke with far greater wisdom then even my most learned professors.

Well this whole thing got me praying and reading the new testament, but the moments that really made me a christian is kinda silly;

I was at a friends house, and she was having a party. I had recently had my heart broken and this party(and the petty people at it) was not cheering me up....I felt worthless, like every action I took had no purpose or meaning. I felt that nothing I did had value and so I had no value.

I then proceeded to haul myself into a room away from everyone else and drown my sorrows in whiskey. I lay there on that floor honestly asking god to kill me, to end my worthless life and send me to where I deserved to go...hell. What happened next was a little weird.

Now I LOVE dogs, and my friend who was throwing this party had a very, very old dog that I had played with a couple of times(labrador retriever). Well as I lay there asking god to kill me, that dog literally rammed the room's door with it's head, burst in, ran over to me and flopped down on my chest. It then proceeded to make me play as if she were a puppy(she's an old old dog).

I played with that dog and felt this feeling of total love and joy swell up inside me. Afterwards when I was sitting there a thought that I knew wasn't mine popped into my head "You're not worthless to me, and my opinion is the only one that matters".

I was sold....next sunday I was in church :-D course that was only the begining........god is great.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Do you know that there is a verse or 2 in the bible that accuses the Jews of modifying the old testament?! Which is ofcourse half of the bible.

Care to elaborate? Which ones?

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6939 Location: Ohio

Quote: What proof do you have that they wrote the bible under divine guidance? What proof do you have that the bible wasnt modified since then?

Proof? Asking for proof with regards to religion is pointless. If there was any way to prove religion, it would be fact, not a belief. He could turn around and ask you to prove various things about Islam. The fact is, you cannot.

eynon · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:14 am Post subject:

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: What proof do you have that they wrote the bible under divine guidance? What proof do you have that the bible wasnt modified since then?

Proof? Asking for proof with regards to religion is pointless. If there was any way to prove religion, it would be fact, not a belief. He could turn around and ask you to prove various things about Islam. The fact is, you cannot.

well if we could then faith wouldn't be worth much :wink:

pharaoh · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:34 am Post subject:

Eynon81 wrote: pharaoh wrote: Eynon81 wrote: Quote: On the other hand, by being a muslim you will feel such peace at heart that you never felt before. Just read what new converts said about what they first felt when they converted to Islam. Almost all of them said that they felt a strange and previsouly unknow feeling of peace and rest.

That sounds familair :-D

When I converted to Christianity I had the same thing happen....warmth, peace, rest....it was strange, like a shower of gods' love, on demand. Truely he is great :-D

What was your past religion and what made you believe that Christianity is the right thing for you?

athiest/agnostic.......as to my convertion, well it's a long story, but I'll be brief; basically the more I learned about the world the more I learned that something was not right and that my faith in humanity was misplaced. Plus I was constantly plauged with a emptiness that no amount of booze, sex, working-out or studying of human wisdom could fill. Basically I did everything I could to make myself happy, filled my life with fun, physical fitness, plus a heafty dose of cultural and intellectucal pursuits. All the things my cultures says should make me happy :wink:

Well I wasn't, I was stressed, scared, and empty. On top of all that I was starting to rationalize to myself the virtues of well.....evil. Afterall if there is no god, then why should I not do everything I can to satify my needs?

Ok so, I was taking summer classes at my university and had a very long drive both to and from school. I had to leave very early in the morning, and so I'd listen to this minister named James Dobsen while I was driving, because what he said usually made me angry and would wake me up.

Well after him another mininister came on name Chuck Swindol.....well this guy most definatley did not make me angry.....his message was so full of love and wisdom, yet so simple, that it moved me a great deal. After class on my ride home another minister name Jim Ferguson was on, and again, his messages were so full of love, joy, warmth, and wisdom that I would often take a longer rout home just so I could hear his whole message.

What struck me most at this time was that both these ministers were not "educated men".....they came from simple backgrounds, but spoke with far greater wisdom then even my most learned professors.

Well this whole thing got me praying and reading the new testament, but the moments that really made me a christian is kinda silly;

I was at a friends house, and she was having a party. I had recently had my heart broken and this party(and the petty people at it) was not cheering me up....I felt worthless, like every action I took had no purpose or meaning. I felt that nothing I did had value and so I had no value.

I then proceeded to haul myself into a room away from everyone else and drown my sorrows in whiskey. I lay there on that floor honestly asking god to kill me, to end my worthless life and send me to where I deserved to go...hell. What happened next was a little weird.

Now I LOVE dogs, and my friend who was throwing this party had a very, very old dog that I had played with a couple of times(labrador retriever). Well as I lay there asking god to kill me, that dog literally rammed the room's door with it's head, burst in, ran over to me and flopped down on my chest. It then proceeded to make me play as if she were a puppy(she's an old old dog).

I played with that dog and felt this feeling of total love and joy swell up inside me. Afterwards when I was sitting there a thought that I knew wasn't mine popped into my head "You're not worthless to me, and my opinion is the only one that matters".

I was sold....next sunday I was in church :-D course that was only the begining........god is great.

It is so good to know that you are now feeling so much better. Before, you felt what every atheist might feel, a feeling of emptiness and that nothing really matters. You got that sense Eynon, you feel that God do exist and that you want to be closer to him, you want him to guide you and to love you. I think all of us who believe in God want the same thing. The thing is, finding god is not the end of the road, its only the start. Maybe you think Christianity is good for you but I do believe firmly that you only think so cause you dont know much about the other divine religions, like Judaism and Islam (ofcourse to you Islam is not divine). So why did you chose Christianity instead of Judaism? Is it just because a minister or 2 talked very well about Christianity? Didnt you say the 1st minister made you angry?
I really am happy that you feel better but I think your choice of Christianity as your religion was only because it was the only religion your familiar with.
Advice: Pray to god, just ask him to guide you to the truth, do it sincerely and repeat that prayer alot and lets see what happens...

pharaoh · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:39 am Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Do you know that there is a verse or 2 in the bible that accuses the Jews of modifying the old testament?! Which is ofcourse half of the bible.

Care to elaborate? Which ones?

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

Or

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In general, there are alot of contradictions and errors in the bible. Surely you know that dont you?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

First of all, that is not from the New Testament. That is the prophet Jeremiah castigating Israel for falling into idoltary right before Israel was taken into captivity by Babylon. Some of the scribes and and others were following false gods so God punished them with this captivity. This was before 500BC when it was written. These scribes could not have changed any scripture because Jeremiah was there warning them about their evil, and making his contrabution to Scripture handed down to us today as the Book of Jeremiah. He wrote the scripture we have today not the false scribes, their false writings largely disappeared from history.

Men of this caliber guarded the Holy Scripture for millennia. It was never changed and the story of the war against this change is the Scripture itself. We just fail to follow it in this modern age. Any fault for the state of the world today is our own.

This doesn't show at all the scriptures were changed or that the Apostles knew such a thing. It shows that idolatry consumed Israel at one time and Israel was punished for it's transgressions and repented. And that God's prophet Jeremiah warned them about this before hand and recorded it for posterity. This is the setting in which Holy Scripture was forged.

The Apostles taught this because they taught the scriptures..

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: First of all, that is not from the New Testament.
I thought you're supposed to take the whole entire Bible, start-to-finish, every letter, mark, punctuation, as the total, complete, unerring Word of God..

Now I'm confused.. :?

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2597

What is Islam's view on those who except G-d as the one G-d, but reject Mohammad as His prophet. And they live good lives. Do they have a place in paradise?

Also what is the Muslim conception of hell?

pharaoh · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: First of all, that is not from the New Testament. That is the prophet Jeremiah castigating Israel for falling into idoltary right before Israel was taken into captivity by Babylon. Some of the scribes and and others were following false gods so God punished them with this captivity. This was before 500BC when it was written. These scribes could not have changed any scripture because Jeremiah was there warning them about their evil, and making his contrabution to Scripture handed down to us today as the Book of Jeremiah. He wrote the scripture we have today not the false scribes, their false writings largely disappeared from history.

Men of this caliber guarded the Holy Scripture for millennia. It was never changed and the story of the war against this change is the Scripture itself. We just fail to follow it in this modern age. Any fault for the state of the world today is our own.

This doesn't show at all the scriptures were changed or that the Apostles knew such a thing. It shows that idolatry consumed Israel at one time and Israel was punished for it's transgressions and repented. And that God's prophet Jeremiah warned them about this before hand and recorded it for posterity. This is the setting in which Holy Scripture was forged.

The Apostles taught this because they taught the scriptures..

1- I think that the passage is very clear: "But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. "
It doesnt talk about following the path of Satan, it doesnt say that they are trying to change god's words but that they have already succeeded in changing it, thus, "MADE it into a lie".

2- You said "their false writings laregly disappeared from history" okay, then you do know that there were false writing and it didnt completely dissapear right? Now, what evidence do you have that any false writing has disappeared in the first place?

3- Do you honestly believe that god, the merciful and the compassionate would really order you to follow the rules that were written in the torah? Is that your view of God that "loves all of his children"?

4- Do you see any kind of resemblance between god in the torah that orders his people to fight and kill whoever stands in their way and that of the new testament that, as you think, sacrificed his own "son" for our sake? Why did he save Moses and let his "son" die? Can you explain to me this difference in ideology in these 2 situations? Why kill kill kill in the torah and whoever strikes you turn to him your other cheek in the new testament? How do these 2 teachings combine and make 1 holy book?!

5- Why do you Christians read the torah all the time and consider it as half of the bible and yet you dont follow its civil and criminal laws? Especially that there is no passage in the NT that orders you NOT to follow them?!

That would do for now...

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

pharaoh wrote: 4- Do you see any kind of resemblance between god in the torah that orders his people to fight and kill whoever stands in their way and that of the new testament that, as you think, sacrificed his own "son" for our sake? Why did he save Moses and let his "son" die? Can you explain to me this difference in ideology in these 2 situations? Why kill kill kill in the torah and whoever strikes you turn to him your other cheek? How do these 2 teachings combine and make 1 holy book?!
Yes, I agree... the "god" that is depicted in the OT is *very* different from the one in the NT..