Political Crossfire Forums

AshTray900 · Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 78

Religion and intolerance have always been a problem. Since the movement my polytheisism to monotheisism (if i misspelled it im sorry), the main problem is that by beliving in one true god (who is the "only god") is that somewhere in that mess it gets translated into "mine is right and yours is wrong", the fact that we all know is that God is a concept in the brain, if you wish to belive he is real then go ahead.

The only thing i disagree with is pushing those ideals upon somebody else, and muslisms as well as christians are bad about this, however muslims may be present day more violent about it, but less we not forget that christians have been just as evil in the past. I personally dont belive in the existence of god except as a conecpt to help us deal with our evolutionary death avoidance desire and the less primative cognitave ability which allows us to realize that we will die no matter what we do to avoid it.

That being said i think that radical muslims are doing the same thing that christians do but they are just violent with how they do it, they are in denail! They dont want to face other religions, and especially athiests - "infidels" like me - because it makes there brain look at religion from a different perspective, they want to belive that islam is the only true religion and that everything thrown on those pages in the koran is real history, but in the real world we have to accept that this is just philosophy which is nothing more than science without logic or scientific reasoning, (its just people expressing their emotions and taking a stab at the big questions that are unaswered without any proof or evidence to support their case)

I personally am tired of the problems that have been arising from religion since as far back as the history books go, its time to just lay the fear down and realize that religion no matter what kind in is purity is an expression of our fear of dying. Nobody wants to die but we all are going to, so it seems silly that we cant all "just get along" (lol) and try to make the world a better place for the one thing that will not die with us: OUR KIDS! Anyway, I am not trying to offend any deeply religious people nor am i trying to support terrorism in any way. The main reason that muslims are still the way christians were 600 years ago is the power structure in most islamic contries has been suppressing free thought and expression so they have had less quality time with themselves to evolve socially. Just take a look at how they treat women, if I treated my girlfriend like that I'd probably wake up with my winky missing like Mr Bobbit!

Socially, the western world is far more evolved than the middle east, I am not saying, however, that middle easter humans have a genetically less evolved brain, its just that society evolves on its own, our brains have been as powerfull now as they have been for 1000+ years, but what good is a brain with no input or garbage for input?

Thowing out the iraqi government was the best move to combat terrorism in the long run, i dont think this drawn out effort is all together neccessary , we just need to make sure whatever power structure they form in the future doesnt not suppress free thought, freedom of speach, releigion, and expression, because their society will get better with time if they jump start its evolution. Who knows, one day iraq may be the next super power, i mean they have a ton of natural resources. But if that day ever comes, it will be because thay are socially advanced to the point that we are now so while terror can pose as a threat to individual lives, as long as we can keep the nukes away from primitive society we can sleep comfortable knowing that the name of the game is still survival of the fittest and that includes socially fit as well as genetically fit so in the end good will triumph over evil, even though the two really dont exist but what the masses consider good is usually the most logical for survival, and survival is the law of this world.

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1634

we muslims are tolerant of other religions, believe me.....some of the terrorists acts you see are people who are trying to defend themselves because they are afraid from the future....and others aren't good, i know.....some them just do what they want to do by the name of islam, they just use islam as an excuse.......to clarify more, what happened in jordan, if you heard of it, is really a nasty thing to do, because islam doesn't ask us to kill innocent people espeacially women and the elderly......if were intolerant i would not be a member in this forum, i would not accept to sit with a nonmuslim in the same place(where i everday do) and i wouldn't have read books written by nonmuslims.....

and for the women treatment....it just amazes me how everybody thinks that we are mistreated......i am an arabic muslim girl, i was never mistreated......yes muslims women are mistreated but not in the middle east, you could say in afghanistan and pakistan...and the reason for that is the misunderstanding of the quran verses........in my case, i have all the rights a man has, sometimes i get to have rights that males don't in my society, such as the will......sometimes women get to have the whole money, since it is judgement from the quran......yes the quran has given the judgement that some women must get the whole money....

and i agree with you.....i am also tired of this neverending war......and people are free to choose what ever religion they want, but if they chose islam, the duty of the other muslims is remind them and encourage them to follow it precisley

AshTray900 · Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 78

Muslima wrote: we muslims are tolerant of other religions, believe me.....some of the terrorists acts you see are people who are trying to defend themselves because they are afraid from the future....and others aren't good, i know.....some them just do what they want to do by the name of islam, they just use islam as an excuse.......to clarify more, what happened in jordan, if you heard of it, is really a nasty thing to do, because islam doesn't ask us to kill innocent people espeacially women and the elderly......if were intolerant i would not be a member in this forum, i would not accept to sit with a nonmuslim in the same place(where i everday do) and i wouldn't have read books written by nonmuslims.....

and for the women treatment....it just amazes me how everybody thinks that we are mistreated......i am an arabic muslim girl, i was never mistreated......yes muslims women are mistreated but not in the middle east, you could say in afghanistan and pakistan...and the reason for that is the misunderstanding of the quran verses........in my case, i have all the rights a man has, sometimes i get to have rights that males don't in my society, such as the will......sometimes women get to have the whole money, since it is judgement from the quran......yes the quran has given the judgement that some women must get the whole money....

and i agree with you.....i am also tired of this neverending war......and people are free to choose what ever religion they want, but if they chose islam, the duty of the other muslims is remind them and encourage them to follow it precisley

i would agree that Islamic people are not all intolerant just as well as Christians, i was only referring to the ones who are, it is they who give religion a bad name, and in my opinion the only reason we over here in this country arnt having the same terror problems as some middle eastern countries is because our power structure doesnt allow it , where in a country run by radicals or at least run by people who do not or cannot control the radicals the problem exists, i think there would be just as many "morons" over here that would respond the same way if our society had a structure to condone or atleast not prevent it.

Islam itself to me seems to be no less tolerant than christianity, they both have many good morals and some that in my opinion arnt so good. they both on some level make claim that they are correct and others should follow their particular "path" and i think its that part that gets taken all out of whack, it does not directly say do harm to other religions but it says that they are wrong or atleast not the whole truth and this is where the differences come about

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1634

well i do respect your opinion

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

tolerance... Islam is all about tolerance...

just look at all the christians and jews who live and have lived among muslims since the dawn of Islam

look at the Copts in Egypt, the jews in Morocco and Iraq, Orthodox christians in Lebanon, Syria, and I could keep mentioning names ..but those examples are enough

those jews and christians were never massacred or expelled of their homes and cities...

unlike the crusaders when they invaded Jerusalem and killed everybody in it... and western histroy is my witness here...

Islam is much more tolerant and just than christianity or judaism...

before the Battle of Alyarmouk a muslim army leader , called Abu Obaydah Ibn Aljarrahh, had entered Aleppo and the christians in that city had already paid Aljizyah to him in exchange for protection... but that leader when he received a message from Khalid Ibn Alwaleed asking him to come and aid him in his fight against the roman army... Abu Obaydah returned the money back to the christians in Aleppo because he said that he would not be able to protect them becuase of his new mission...

thats just one story of the fairness and tolerance of muslims leaders in the past....

alas... none of the muslim leaders nowadays possesses half of Abu Obaydah's nobility and integrity

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6939 Location: Ohio

That does not show the peacefulness of a religion, just the peacefulness of a few of their followers.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

of course it does...
the first followers of Islam followed the teaching of Islam and were masters in it...

Islam and its teachings commands us to be honest and trustworthy with each other and with non muslims...

the recent acts of others who might call themselves muslims should not be your proof against Islam

..now I know that many christians do not follow the teachings of christianity...

the question I need to ask myself is... should I judge a religion by its teachings or by the actions of its followers?

thats a question for you to answer

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6939 Location: Ohio

Its teachings, which is exactly my point. You are saying Islam is more tolerant than Christianity because of the Crusaders, etc where as Christians were not attacked in Muslim areas. All that is just the actions of LEADERS, not the religion itself.

Glorfindel · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 485 Location: AlRiyadh

of course these were the actions of the leaders... but those leaders must either have obeyed the teachings of their religions or disobeyed them...

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16385 Location: On Earth

Did you guys know that in the predominantly Islamic world at the time of the crusades, Christians and Jews were living peacefully as minorities in these lands, and they were more than just friends with the Muslims who predominated these places?

When the crusaders attacked, they didn't just have sights for the Holy Land, but they also shed Muslim, Jewish and even CHRISTIAN blood that got in their way. I'm not saying that the Christian religion taught them such vile deeds, but it was, as you guys said, the actions of the Christian leaders at that time in ordering their troops to do so.

When the Muslims re-established themselves in these lands and set up government, ALL who were under their rule - Chrisitans, Jews and Muslims alike - were treated equally and justly. In this case, the teachings of Islam were the basis of their actions, but of course, you can't really tell...

And to answer the topic of this forum and illustrate my main point in this long talk, nothing is really wrong with any religion if you look at it that way.... just how SOME its followers interpret its teachings.

Psycho Sid · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 18

AshTray:

"The only thing i disagree with is pushing those ideals upon somebody else...however muslims may be present day more violent about it,"

You have to know that every violence today that has Muslims as a party in it is not at all about 'spreading' Islam. It's about self-defense. When Muslim clash with Israelis, Russians or Americans, it's becaue Palestine, Chechnya and Iraq/Afghanistan were invaded. So it's about self-defense, not about pushing our ideals onto anyone at all.

"I personally dont belive in the existence of god except as a conecpt to help us deal with our evolutionary death avoidance desire and the less primative cognitave ability which allows us to realize that we will die no matter what we do to avoid it. "

Actually, God is a fact proven by basic logic. Here, take a stab at my thread:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44667

"They dont want to face other religions, and especially athiests - "infidels" like me - because it makes there brain look at religion from a different perspective, they want to belive that islam is the only true religion and that everything thrown on those pages in the koran is real history, but in the real world we have to accept that this is just philosophy which is nothing more than science without logic or scientific reasoning, (its just people expressing their emotions and taking a stab at the big questions that are unaswered without any proof or evidence to support their case) "

Well, I'm a former Christian who chose Islam willingly. The last thing I would've chosen when I was at the crossroads was atheism. Go ahead, click my thread above and let's talk about God if you want. I'm all up for it.