Political Crossfire Forums

[Mailech]

John wrote: Quote: When a person gossips and slanders he gets punished, that punishment is tsara'at.


Why don't you have it?

Because since there is no Temple, no Red Heifer and so there is no way I can give the sacrifice and be purified, G-d does not afflict with this malady.

It is due to our many sins that we no longer have this clear indicator from G-d when we are doing wrong.

Some say that poverty is a modern day replacement. A person who speaks ill of others usually thinks he is better than they, you get tsara'at to put you in your place. A poor person will not be so quick to slander others, especially if he is relying on them for support.

[John]

Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: When a person gossips and slanders he gets punished, that punishment is tsara'at.


Why don't you have it?

Because since there is no Temple, no Red Heifer and so there is no way I can give the sacrifice and be purified, G-d does not afflict with this malady.

It is due to our many sins that we no longer have this clear indicator from G-d when we are doing wrong.

Some say that poverty is a modern day replacement. A person who speaks ill of others usually thinks he is better than they, you get tsara'at to put you in your place. A poor person will not be so quick to slander others, especially if he is relying on them for support.

I guess you could use the same logic for all sin.

Interesting.

[Mailech]

John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: When a person gossips and slanders he gets punished, that punishment is tsara'at.


Why don't you have it?

Because since there is no Temple, no Red Heifer and so there is no way I can give the sacrifice and be purified, G-d does not afflict with this malady.

It is due to our many sins that we no longer have this clear indicator from G-d when we are doing wrong.

Some say that poverty is a modern day replacement. A person who speaks ill of others usually thinks he is better than they, you get tsara'at to put you in your place. A poor person will not be so quick to slander others, especially if he is relying on them for support.

I guess you could use the same logic for all sin.

Interesting.

Please explain, I don't understand.

[John]

Mailech wrote: John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: When a person gossips and slanders he gets punished, that punishment is tsara'at.


Why don't you have it?

Because since there is no Temple, no Red Heifer and so there is no way I can give the sacrifice and be purified, G-d does not afflict with this malady.

It is due to our many sins that we no longer have this clear indicator from G-d when we are doing wrong.

Some say that poverty is a modern day replacement. A person who speaks ill of others usually thinks he is better than they, you get tsara'at to put you in your place. A poor person will not be so quick to slander others, especially if he is relying on them for support.

I guess you could use the same logic for all sin.

Interesting.

Please explain, I don't understand.

Seems to me...that you're saying that since there is no Temple, no High Priest, Red Cow, ect ect.. Then God doesn't hold you to the same acountability as if the Jews did keep up thier Temple and system of Priests.

It seems to me that you guys are better off without the Temple then.

[Mailech]

John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: When a person gossips and slanders he gets punished, that punishment is tsara'at.


Why don't you have it?

Because since there is no Temple, no Red Heifer and so there is no way I can give the sacrifice and be purified, G-d does not afflict with this malady.

It is due to our many sins that we no longer have this clear indicator from G-d when we are doing wrong.

Some say that poverty is a modern day replacement. A person who speaks ill of others usually thinks he is better than they, you get tsara'at to put you in your place. A poor person will not be so quick to slander others, especially if he is relying on them for support.

I guess you could use the same logic for all sin.

Interesting.

Please explain, I don't understand.

Seems to me...that you're saying that since there is no Temple, no High Priest, Red Cow, ect ect.. Then God doesn't hold you to the same acountability as if the Jews did keep up thier Temple and system of Priests.

It seems to me that you guys are better off without the Temple then.

No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

[John]

Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

[Mailech]

John wrote: Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

Because I don't merit that "favor"

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

On what basis should G-d do us that particular favor? In your opinion, backed up by sources....

[John]

Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

Because I don't merit that "favor"

But you merit the favor of not recieving the leprosy because there is no Temple?

[Mailech]

John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

Because I don't merit that "favor"

But you merit the favor of not recieving the leprosy because there is no Temple?

Is is all a big ball. You see, I don't merit the favor for the same reason that I do not have the Temple, I am not worthy.
The other reason is that G-d would not give me the ailment of Tsaraat if there is no way that I can be cleansed of it.

[John]

Mailech wrote: John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

Because I don't merit that "favor"

But you merit the favor of not recieving the leprosy because there is no Temple?

Is is all a big ball. You see, I don't merit the favor for the same reason that I do not have the Temple, I am not worthy.
The other reason is that G-d would not give me the ailment of Tsaraat if there is no way that I can be cleansed of it.

That's funny. I thought God could do all things.

[Mailech]

John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: No the opposite is true.

If I don't get punished for my sins of Lashon Harah in this world I will be punished for them in the next. And any punishment in this world is far lighter than the punishments of the next. Besides if when I did say Lashon Hara I was punished, I would probably be less likely to do the sin, so I would be better off getting punished.

Second, it is true that I am not held up to the same standards as my forefathers. That is because I am not close to level that they were on. But this is not a good thing. Because I am not on their level, I may not be punished as much for the same transgresions, but I can also not attain the same level of spiritual perefection and so my place in the World to Come will not be as great as theirs. So you have to take the bitter with the better. But in reality for me they are both bitter.

OK...So why doesn't God do you the favor and let you get leprosy then.

There's no Temple but at least you wouldn't suffer as much in the "next" world.

Because I don't merit that "favor"

But you merit the favor of not recieving the leprosy because there is no Temple?

Is is all a big ball. You see, I don't merit the favor for the same reason that I do not have the Temple, I am not worthy.
The other reason is that G-d would not give me the ailment of Tsaraat if there is no way that I can be cleansed of it.

That's funny. I thought God could do all things.

He can do all things, but we have to be worthy. When we are worthy of it then He will bring the Messiah, build the Temple, and then we can be cleansed of our impurity and if we are bad get tsaraat

[Duchifas]

John, you asked why G-d "doesn't" do something, not why He "can't" do something.

Could G-d cleanse tzaraas now? Yes. Why doesn't He? That's a different question.