Political Crossfire Forums

[Black]

:shock: Is it intellectually honest for a Messianic Judaism ad to be in the Judaism forum?

We all know that it takes an expert to distinguish between 'Messianic Judaism' which is simply a Christian religion Jewish style from Judaism. Judaism has nothing to do with Jesus. (when it does, it classically is known as 'Christianity'.)

I'm not saying the Messianic Christians can't adopt stars of David, etc. But when it is used to deceive, as when put in proximity to Judaism, witthout any distinction, then it skates over the line into intellectual deception.

Here's the test: Someone who is ignorant that Yeshua is Jesus, how long would it take for them to discover it?

I don't think it's fair.

It's not intellectually honest.

Let's remember, Messianics usually HATE with a passion Jewish sages = rabbis of old.

In a crowd, usually the Christians are very respectful of Jews / rabbis.

But anyone who has ever debated / discussed with 'Messianics' (most of whom are NOT Jews by birth, only by Yeshua (Jesus) [if at all, and I think it's at the least an unfortunate and intentional confusion to call someone Jewish just because they believe in Jesus = Yeshua as their God man.

It should tell you something that the most obvious symbols of Messianics (yarmulkes, tzitzis [for men only], Shabbos candle lighting,) these are RABBINIC institutions, the same 'devil rabbis' that they hate with a passion.

If the rabbis are so bad, why is it that the Messianics use those symbols? Because they want to confuse the public. The JEWISH public.

I've heard of cases of old people taken in, singing, dancing, praising 'Yeshua'... only to find out in horror later that that is Jesus.

(I wish I could have seen the look on their faces, that would have been a hoot.)

Intellectually dishonest.

Shame on that tactic. (changed from 'Shame on them' to comply with forum rules)


(but otherwise, I'm sure they're nice people.)

It is really 'Messianic Christianity'.

I understand they are ashamed of the word, 'Christian', so I compromise and just call them 'Messianics'. I figure the only objection they would have to 'Messianics' is that is it isn't effective enough for the purpose of confusing ignorant Jews.

Let me be clear, I would completely withdraw my complaint if they made it crystal clear they were praying to the man who died on the cross.

Put a picture, something, to make it clear that the person who 'died for their sins' is the point, the target of their prayers in common with God, then they can have all the Stars of David, Shabbos candles, etc etc that they want. I'd even share eruvai chatzeros matzos with them if they want. I'm for putting the ingrediants on the label in plain English.

Or at least make it clear somehow, up front.

Why not put a cross in the middle of the star? Wouldn't that solve any confusion? Make the star bigger if you want, great.

But to hide it, to build houses of worship that the ignorant would confuse for a synagogue, why do that?

Unless it is intended to confuse. If so, that's intellectually dishonest.

I don't even know if they would deny that.

[Duchifas]

I fully agree, Black. It is quite an unfortunate phenomenon. What's even more unfortunate is that these groups, J for J, for example, use deceptive tactics on elderly immigrants from the former USSR, who after 70 years of persecution are not very well versed in Judaism, and can't tell these yarmulka wearing folks from real Jews. And of course, there is the deceptive lingo to make everything seem authentically Jewish. Jesus is not Jesus. He is Yeshua.

As I mentioned on this forum before, "Messianic" Judaism is quite a comical misnomer. All traditional Jews are messianic. We all believe that Messiah will come. What's so special about the Messianics then? If they believe, more specifically than real Jews, that someone specific is the Messiah, well call yourselves Jesus-ianic Jews or something. But to assume the title of Messianic, as if real Jews don't believe in Messiah...that's just comical.

As to ads here, I think it's just an automated google ad program. It ain't gonna fool anyone in this forum. :lol:

[John]

Quote: It is really 'Messianic Christianity'.

:lol:

That's funny.

[Duchifas]

Actually, Christianity itself is a misnomer. If Christ means Messiah, then Christians are Messianics. Which leads to the same observation as I made about "Messianic" Jews.

[John]

Duchifas wrote: Actually, Christianity itself is a misnomer. If Christ means Messiah, then Christians are Messianics. Which leads to the same observation as I made about "Messianic" Jews.

Yeah...you're right actually. "Messianic Jews" are called Judaizers in the New Testament.

Although not all "Messianic Jews" are Judaizers. Some are just Jewish Christians who have chosen to keep their Jewish heritage. There's nothing wrong with that at all. The ones that aren't Judaizers believe that it is good for a Jew to keep up their tradition but doesn't believe that it works toward their Salvation...that the work of Salvation was completed on the cross by Jesus Christ.

[Teshuvah]

Quote: "Messianic Jews" are called Judaizers in the New Testament.


Curious. I thought the term judaizers came long after the formation of the NT text.

Where does it say this John?

[John]

Teshuvah wrote: Quote: "Messianic Jews" are called Judaizers in the New Testament.


Curious. I thought the term judaizers came long after the formation of the NT text.

Where does it say this John?

I think you're right. The word "Judaizer" isn't used, it usualy says something like "those guys" or "evil workers" and then goes on to describe what they were teaching. But that shouldn't too surprizing...the word "Christian" is only used a couple times in the NT.

Here something I found kinda interesting...
http://www.precious-testimonies.com/Exhortations/a-e/BelieverLaw.htm

[Black]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaize

Judaizers is a term used by Pauline Christianity, particularly after the third century, to describe Jewish Christian groups like the Ebionites and Nazarenes who believed that followers of Jesus needed to keep the Law of Moses. These groups taught that gentile followers of Jesus needed to become Jewish proselytes and observe the various requirements of Judaism, most importantly circumcision, or at least that the Jewish followers of Jesus needed to do so with Noahide Law decreed for gentiles.

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