Political Crossfire Forums

[psholtz]

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: One can "transform" into a disguise.
Of course, but that's not what the verse says, is it?

It doesn't say "Satan transforms into a disguise that makes you think he's an angel of light"

It doesn't say "Satan transforms into a disguise, period"

It says "Satan is transformed into an angel of light"

Interpret that however you will.. Just make sure you obey some pretty basic rules of logic and deduction as you proceed, thats' all..

Yes it does say that..read it in context. You're the king of interpreting a word or half a verse out of context.
Sure, you can read the context however you choose, so long as we agree that 2 Cor 11:14 itself says that "Satan is transformed into an angel of light"..

Now, if we could return to the topic at hand, which I believe are djinns, that'd be cool! :tu: :-D

[John]

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: One can "transform" into a disguise.
Of course, but that's not what the verse says, is it?

It doesn't say "Satan transforms into a disguise that makes you think he's an angel of light"

It doesn't say "Satan transforms into a disguise, period"

It says "Satan is transformed into an angel of light"

Interpret that however you will.. Just make sure you obey some pretty basic rules of logic and deduction as you proceed, thats' all..

Yes it does say that..read it in context. You're the king of interpreting a word or half a verse out of context.
Sure, you can read the context however you choose, so long as we agree that 2 Cor 11:14 itself says that "Satan is transformed into an angel of light"..

Now, if we could return to the topic at hand, which I believe are djinns, that'd be cool! :tu: :-D

Seems to go hand and hand with the context of the thread no?

[psholtz]

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: One can "transform" into a disguise.
Of course, but that's not what the verse says, is it?

It doesn't say "Satan transforms into a disguise that makes you think he's an angel of light"

It doesn't say "Satan transforms into a disguise, period"

It says "Satan is transformed into an angel of light"

Interpret that however you will.. Just make sure you obey some pretty basic rules of logic and deduction as you proceed, thats' all..

Yes it does say that..read it in context. You're the king of interpreting a word or half a verse out of context.
Sure, you can read the context however you choose, so long as we agree that 2 Cor 11:14 itself says that "Satan is transformed into an angel of light"..

Now, if we could return to the topic at hand, which I believe are djinns, that'd be cool! :tu: :-D

Seems to go hand and hand with the context of the thread no?
The beautiful thing about the Bible is that it can be interpreted in many different ways, by people who are at many different levels of understanding.

On one level, yes, you should beware of things which "appear" to be lustrous and seductive, but which will lead you to ultimate ruin. All that glitters is not gold, so to speak, and evil most often "disguises" itself (<- returning to that word again) as something seductive and charming and beautiful. If that's how you feel the verse should be read, more power to you.

St. Paul was, however, a man imbibed w/ deep wisdom. See 1 Corinthians 2:6 for more info. In light of that, I would feel that there is more to that verse (2 Cor 11:14) than meets the eye, although it's useless for me to speculate further, since I was not there and I do not know precisely what St. Paul had in mind when he penned these lines..

Now, back to the djinns! :lol:

[pharaoh]

Quote: i learned this from a cassette i heard by "Dr. Tarik Al-Swaidan", if you know him.


Yes I know him. I have his collection about Dar el akhra.Very good
But I just dont know about this war, I never heard a hadith about it. I will check about it.

The site you provided me is very over the top. For example, on what It says to prevent having sex with a Jinn. Where is the hadith thats supporting this weird stuff? There aint.
And I didnt find any verse in the Koran or a hadith that specifically mentions love between a human and a Jinn. I could be wrong though.

Quote: : -
1/ رد التثاؤب ما استطاع : لما روي البخاري عن أبي هريرة (رضي الله عنه) عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم أنه قال ( إذا تثاءب أحدكم فليكظم ما استطاع )
2/ وضع اليد على الفم إذا ملكه التثاؤب : لما رواه أبو سعيد عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم قال: ( إذا تثاؤب أحدكم فليضع يده بفيه ، فان الشيطان يدخل فيه )
ج- كراهية رفع الصوت عند التثاؤب :
حيث يروى فيه أن الرسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم قال: (إن الله عز و جل يكره رفع الصوت عند التثاؤب و العطاس )

عن ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما، أن رسول الله صاى الله عليه و سلم قال:" أقيموا الصفوف، و حاذوا بين المناكب، و سدوا الخلل، و لينوا بأيدي إخوانكم، و لا تذروا فرجات الشيطان: و من وصل صفا وصله الله، و من قطع صفا قطعه الله"

و عن أنس رضي الله عنه أن رسول الله قال:" رصوا صفوفكم، و قاربوا بينها، و حاذوا بالأعناق، فوالذي نفسي بيده إني لأرى الشيطان يدخل من خلل الصف كأنها الحذف"

Yeah ok but you said a Jinn and not a devil. You seem to be having a problem differentiating between Jinn and Shayaten.

Quote: as i believe that i asked politely, so why are you being rude?


Im not,Im just teasing ya a bit. Im kinda preparing you to the REAL rude people here. So you should thank me... 8)

Quote: you can correct me, but i never say or write things that i am not sure of.


You confuse between the Jinn and the devils and the site you provided was bizarre to say the least. But overall,yeah you were right. You provided the hadithes,good job.

Quote: as long as i have proved myself right, i dont see that you should be terrified

Ana kont bahazar, ifhami ba'a!

[Muslima]

okay... so samna 3ala 3asal

but i agree with you there are no koran verses or hadiths about love btw jinn and human

[pharaoh]

Muslima wrote: okay... so samna 3ala 3asal

but i agree with you there are no koran verses or hadiths about love btw jinn and human

Yeah I think this love thing was so strange. Did you see Adel Emam movie where he plays the role of a Jinn and falls in love with Yosra recently?! :-D

[Duchifas]

pharaoh wrote: Muslima wrote: okay... so samna 3ala 3asal

but i agree with you there are no koran verses or hadiths about love btw jinn and human

Yeah I think this love thing was so strange. Did you see Adel Emam movie where he plays the role of a Jinn and falls in love with Yosra recently?! :-D

Does Blockbuster carry it yet? And is Tom Cruise in it? :lol:

[Muslima]

its an old movie and have seen a very long time ago.

[pharaoh]

Quote: its an old movie

Yeah I know.

[Muslima]

CAP N'QUEASY

i am happy to answer your questions if you have any!

[Saracen]

Salam to all my Muslim brothers and sisters. And peace to all who visit this forum.

Just to clarify things up, Jinn are made of fire. There are two types: the good (just Jinn) and bad (Shayateen, "demons"). They thus have free will. This story about them falling in love with human beings was never mentioned before in any of my talks with my religion teachers about Jinn. Good Jinn can protect you from evil Jinn, and bad jinns can incline you to do evil deeds.

However, this "closing your mouth when u yawn" is nothing but a lame misconception. True, Jinn can go into you, but not necessarily from the mouth. What we should really worry about is preventing ourselves from doing bad deeds should an evil jinn take over ourselves.

Also, I'm sure you guys know about Jinn being able to possess human beings, and the stories you see on MBC and Al Jazeera about such stuff. I'd like to see a final word on this issue: can Jinn possess human beings?

[Waryaa]

Moath wrote: Also, I'm sure you guys know about Jinn being able to possess human beings, and the stories you see on MBC and Al Jazeera about such stuff. I'd like to see a final word on this issue: can Jinn possess human beings?

Yes, they can if they are willing, particularly the vicious ones. Though some try to possess human beings, they fail most of the time, especially if the person is God-conscious and has iimaan.

I had seen some people possessed by them, especially a particular man few years ago during a tahajud prayer in Ramadan! He was praying in front row, praying with us, when suddenly we heard odd, a feminine-sounding voice from front row. At first, we thought the voice was from above where sisters were praying, but after a minute or so, most of us perhaps realized (and we were still in prayer) that it was a brother in an obvious great agony. He [or rather "she"] was yelling, shouting in a distraught voice. Since the salah was "tahajud" and longer, the guy with his female voice was crying and wailing during the whole time.

After the prayer, he was taken, still yelling, to upstairs. The jin inside him was apparently a "female" jin. They talked to "her," asking why she is possessing him. She told them her great "love" for him, and she will never leave him alone.

The reason she was yelling in in unbearable torment was because of the particular surah the imam was reciting that night. She couldn't stand that chapter and it was too much for her. She wanted to "depart" from his body, but were trapped. She was cussing, too.

I also know a cousin of mine who had another different experience of a jin "Muslim." It was funny, I might recount it another time.

[pharaoh]

Waryaa wrote: Moath wrote: Also, I'm sure you guys know about Jinn being able to possess human beings, and the stories you see on MBC and Al Jazeera about such stuff. I'd like to see a final word on this issue: can Jinn possess human beings?

Yes, they can if they are willing, particularly the vicious ones. Though some try to possess human beings, they fail most of the time, especially if the person is God-conscious and has iimaan.

I had seen some people possessed by them, especially a particular man few years ago during a tahajud prayer in Ramadan! He was praying in front row, praying with us, when suddenly we heard odd, a feminine-sounding voice from front row. At first, we thought the voice was from above where sisters were praying, but after a minute or so, most of us perhaps realized (and we were still in prayer) that it was a brother in an obvious great agony. He [or rather "she"] was yelling, shouting in a distraught voice. Since the salah was "tahajud" and longer, the guy with his female voice was crying and wailing during the whole time.

After the prayer, he was taken, still yelling, to upstairs. The jin inside him was apparently a "female" jin. They talked to "her," asking why she is possessing him. She told them her great "love" for him, and she will never leave him alone.

The reason she was yelling in in unbearable torment was because of the particular surah the imam was reciting that night. She couldn't stand that chapter and it was too much for her. She wanted to "depart" from his body, but were trapped. She was cussing, too.

I also know a cousin of mine who had another different experience of a jin "Muslim." It was funny, I might recount it another time.

Hallucinations! Thats all.

[Saracen]

Jinn Muslims possessing human beings? I heard otherwise.

"Hallucinations! Thats all!"

But that leaves one more question: when a person is "possessed' bby a "Jinn", is it more a state of dementia or the real thing?

[Waryaa]

How is "hallucination" if that possessed man suddenly had a "female" who was using his own body, telling others "she" was in love with him. The possession of jinis to human beings is well documented, and you can find it in the Islamic tradition, particularly in some hadiths that I cannot currently remember.

The episode happened sometime in 1970s at a small Somali town. As a young girl, my cousin used to go a place a bit outside the town to urinate, especially under a particular tree.

Under that tree, there lived by a "Muslim" jin family. Since she kept repeating to do the act, they had no other choice but to possess and inform her parents and other relatives. A person with an old man's voice was speaking, using her own lips. He complained the young girl using their own "home" as a toilet, and tried to tolerate since she was child but couldn't tolerate any longer. They demanded she stop it, and receive a full apology--meaning a goat must be slaughtered and the goat's blood poured under that tree. The family did it and they left the little girl alone.

You may not believe it, to call it hallucination is oversimplified.

[pharaoh]

Waryaa wrote: How is "hallucination" if that possessed man suddenly had a "female" who was using his own body, telling others "she" was in love with him. The possession of jinis to human beings is well documented, and you can find it in the Islamic tradition, particularly in some hadiths that I cannot currently remember.

The episode happened sometime in 1970s at a small Somali town. As a young girl, my cousin used to go a place a bit outside the town to urinate, especially under a particular tree.

Under that tree, there lived by a "Muslim" jin family. Since she kept repeating to do the act, they had no other choice but to possess and inform her parents and other relatives. A person with an old man's voice was speaking, using her own lips. He complained the young girl using their own "home" as a toilet, and tried to tolerate since she was child but couldn't tolerate any longer. They demanded she stop it, and receive a full apology--meaning a goat must be slaughtered and the goat's blood poured under that tree. The family did it and they left the little girl alone.

You may not believe it, to call it hallucination is oversimplified.

Obviously you dont know much about mentally ill people. People who have psychological problems can imagine almost anything and think its real. Besides, its not very hard to speak in a feminine voice. Maybe Jinn possession of human beings is real and maybe there are some hadithes but I am very doubtful and I dont like to ponder about this issue alot. Its kinda not my business.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: can Jinn possess human beings?

If Jinn are the same thing Christians call demons, then I would say yes.

[cap'n queasy]

pharaoh wrote: Waryaa wrote: How is "hallucination" if that possessed man suddenly had a "female" who was using his own body, telling others "she" was in love with him. The possession of jinis to human beings is well documented, and you can find it in the Islamic tradition, particularly in some hadiths that I cannot currently remember.

The episode happened sometime in 1970s at a small Somali town. As a young girl, my cousin used to go a place a bit outside the town to urinate, especially under a particular tree.

Under that tree, there lived by a "Muslim" jin family. Since she kept repeating to do the act, they had no other choice but to possess and inform her parents and other relatives. A person with an old man's voice was speaking, using her own lips. He complained the young girl using their own "home" as a toilet, and tried to tolerate since she was child but couldn't tolerate any longer. They demanded she stop it, and receive a full apology--meaning a goat must be slaughtered and the goat's blood poured under that tree. The family did it and they left the little girl alone.

You may not believe it, to call it hallucination is oversimplified.

Obviously you dont know much about mentally ill people. People who have psychological problems can imagine almost anything and think its real. Besides, its not very hard to speak in a feminine voice. Maybe Jinn possession of human beings is real and maybe there are some hadithes but I am very doubtful and I dont like to ponder about this issue alot. Its kinda not my business.

I think mental illness is real but some cases can't be explained by just mental illness. In rare cases I think there are authentic possession by demonic forces.

[Muslima]

well......i could be more explicit

the muslim psychologists say that jinn possessions are hallucinations and stuff
and muslim sheikhs say it jinns could possess human

[cap'n queasy]

I think most probably are hallucinations from mental illness but some rare cases are possession.

Think of this, perhaps it is only people that are good who are the ones that are troubled psychologically by the possession of other intelligences. Perhaps evil people, who already have a black heart, are not troubled at all by demonic possession and are never really noticed while they do their mischief, because they do not exhibit any signs of psychological imbalance. Many demons could be harming the human race and we wouldn't know the difference because they don't seem insane to us. They could even posses very powerful people in the world.

I'm not saying it is this way, but it is something to consider.