Political Crossfire Forums

[John Galt]

France was struggling to overcome one of its gravest post-war crises last night as every major city faced the threat of fierce rioting that began 12 nights ago and now seems to have spun out of control.

Despite an assurance from Philippe Douste Blazy, the foreign minister, that France was "not a dangerous country", the spread of violence prompted the Foreign Office in London to warn travellers that trouble could break out "almost anywhere".

Dominique de Villepin, the beleaguered prime minister, announced that officials in riot-hit areas would be authorised to impose late-night curfews "wherever it is necessary" in a bid to halt the disturbances.

He rejected calls by a police union for troops to be sent in but said that 1,500 reservists were being called up and repeated an appeal to parents to keep adolescent rioters off the streets.

Although the disorder began on the intimidating sink estates of Paris's northern suburbs, trouble had been reported yesterday in the early hours from most regions of the country. Even areas such as Brittany, the Loire and Bordeaux, favoured by British holidaymakers and second- home hunters, have now been drawn into the worst wave of unrest in France since the spring revolt of 1968 set in motion the downfall of Gen Charles de Gaulle.

Yesterday the violence also claimed its first life. A 61-year-old man died in hospital three days after being beaten unconscious when he left his home in a northern Paris suburb intending to stop rubbish bins being set on fire.

Even before renewed disturbances broke out last night, figures showed that rioters had wrecked 4,700 vehicles, injured more than 100 police and rescue workers, and opened fire in at least six separate incidents.

Of the 1,200 people arrested, more than 30 - half of them juveniles - have already been jailed or given youth custody.

The police union Action Police CFTC called for curfews to be imposed in all riot-hit areas to combat the "civil war that spreads a little more every day". The mayor of one town, Raincy, north of Paris, announced a late-night street ban on children to "avoid a tragedy". The union also urged the government to send in troops to defeat the trouble-makers, mainly mobs of young people from poor estates dominated by Muslim families whose origins are in France's former colonies in north and sub-Saharan Africa.

Twenty-four hours earlier, a belated and much-criticised intervention by President Jacques Chirac, his first since the violence began, was followed by the worst night of rioting so far.

More than 1,400 vehicles were destroyed, two policemen were injured by birdshot and petrol bomb attacks were launched on schools, churches and public buildings.

Mr Chirac, who had spoken of a French republic resolved to show itself "stronger than those who want to sow violence or fear", made more conciliatory comments in a private meeting yesterday.

President Vaira Vike-Freiberga of Latvia said the French president had admitted to him that "ghettoisation of youths of African or North African origin" was to be deplored, as was French society's "incapacity to fully accept them".

Pascal Clement, the justice minister, announced that three boys, aged 16, had been detained in the southern city of Aix-en-Provence for allegedly using their weblogs, hosted by a pop music radio station, to urge others to riot.

Police claim that ringleaders of the disturbances, which began in the northern Paris surburb of Clichy-sous-Bois on Oct 27 after two boys were accidentally electrocuted while apparently running from police, have become increasingly organised.

The Foreign Office yesterday warned Britons already in France or considering travelling there that the unrest could now break out "almost anywhere".

The new travel advisory painted a much more alarming picture of the threat to British citizens than a similar bulletin issued on Sunday.

Britons should also "avoid any demonstrations which may be taking place in and around" areas affected by the riots, said the Foreign Office website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/08/wfran08.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/11/08/ixportaltop.html

[PricklySponge]

These riots have gone too far. Its time for the french military to step in

[morph]

The cost of empire. It's scary what a populus can do when they are motivated.

[GTTofAK]

morph wrote: The cost of empire. It's scary what a populus can do when they are motivated.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The cost of empire? Your rhetoric is pathetic. What empire? France is smaller than some states. It hasn't been an empire since long before you and most of the Muslim youth terrorizing the country were born.

[Kindred]

GTTofAK wrote: morph wrote: The cost of empire. It's scary what a populus can do when they are motivated.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The cost of empire? Your rhetoric is pathetic. What empire? France is smaller than some states. It hasn't been an empire since long before you and most of the Muslim youth terrorizing the country were born.
He's probably refering to the fact that the vast majority of the immigrants rioting are from former French colonies, such as Algeria.

[anselfir]

algeria is france's mexico, or so i say.

[~SIRIUS~]

PricklySponge wrote: These riots have gone too far. Its time for the french military to step in

:lol: the "French Military" hasn't won a single battle since Napolean :lol:

lot a good that'll do the lot!

[Teshuvah]

A.D wrote: GTTofAK wrote: morph wrote: The cost of empire. It's scary what a populus can do when they are motivated.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The cost of empire? Your rhetoric is pathetic. What empire? France is smaller than some states. It hasn't been an empire since long before you and most of the Muslim youth terrorizing the country were born.
He's probably refering to the fact that the vast majority of the immigrants rioting are from former French colonies, such as Algeria.


The vast majority of the rioters are not immigrants. They are natives of France.

Their parents may well be immigrants.

[superchick]

Am I the only one that is shocked there is not more death in this situation. I know if this was the US we would have had way more than one death by now, especially if it would have lasted 12 days. I don't think it would have lasted 12 days though.

[Teshuvah]

superchick wrote: Am I the only one that is shocked there is not more death in this situation. I know if this was the US we would have had way more than one death by now, especially if it would have lasted 12 days. I don't think it would have lasted 12 days though.


Nope I'm shocked as well. I honestly can't say it was for a lack of trying.

I don't know Frances level of gun control, but I do know what it is here in the states.


That may be the difference.

[John Galt]

Teshuvah wrote: superchick wrote: Am I the only one that is shocked there is not more death in this situation. I know if this was the US we would have had way more than one death by now, especially if it would have lasted 12 days. I don't think it would have lasted 12 days though.


Nope I'm shocked as well. I honestly can't say it was for a lack of trying.

I don't know Frances level of gun control, but I do know what it is here in the states.


That may be the difference.

They lit people on fire.

There would be more death here, yes. Why? Because people like me would shot the hooligans in the face that come near my car. But only the death of the scum rioters.

[Sid]

What itiated these riots anyway?

[superchick]

John Galt wrote: Teshuvah wrote: superchick wrote: Am I the only one that is shocked there is not more death in this situation. I know if this was the US we would have had way more than one death by now, especially if it would have lasted 12 days. I don't think it would have lasted 12 days though.


Nope I'm shocked as well. I honestly can't say it was for a lack of trying.

I don't know Frances level of gun control, but I do know what it is here in the states.


That may be the difference.

They lit people on fire.


There would be more death here, yes. Why? Because people like me would shot the hooligans in the face that come near my car. But only the death of the scum rioters.
I haven't seen that rioters have lit people on fire. Not saying I would be surprised, but I haven't seen that yet. I think rioters here would causes more death also, not just deaths of rioters if this was the US. The LA riots after Rodney King lasted 5 days and had over 60 deaths, included average citizens, rioters, police officers, etc. But at the same time, if something like this happened in the US (the 2 youths electricuted)there wouldn't have been riots because that would be a typical day, and mainstream media would say they were guilty.

[John Galt]

superchick wrote: John Galt wrote: Teshuvah wrote: superchick wrote: Am I the only one that is shocked there is not more death in this situation. I know if this was the US we would have had way more than one death by now, especially if it would have lasted 12 days. I don't think it would have lasted 12 days though.


Nope I'm shocked as well. I honestly can't say it was for a lack of trying.

I don't know Frances level of gun control, but I do know what it is here in the states.


That may be the difference.

They lit people on fire.


There would be more death here, yes. Why? Because people like me would shot the hooligans in the face that come near my car. But only the death of the scum rioters.
I haven't seen that rioters have lit people on fire. Not saying I would be surprised, but I haven't seen that yet. I think rioters here would causes more death also, not just deaths of rioters if this was the US. The LA riots after Rodney King lasted 5 days and had over 60 deaths, included average citizens, rioters, police officers, etc. But at the same time, if something like this happened in the US (the 2 youths electricuted)there wouldn't have been riots because that would be a typical day, and mainstream media would say they were guilty.

:lol: Whatever. The kids ran away because they THOUGHT police were chasing them. The riots have gone on so long over in France they have already completed their investigation and determined that the police were not chasing the two boys, they were conducting a different investigation. Now, that to me indicates someone is guilty if they run because they *think* they are being chased. Guilty of what, I do not know, but obviously they had something on their conscience. In any event here people wouldn't flip like they did over nothing. The Rodney King beating only caused riots because A) it was taped and B) the part of the tape that shows Rodney King attacking police before they subdued him (and it took alot because he was high on PCP) was not shown to the public. I was living in San Pedro at the time and could see the downtown burning from my house (well, a hill nearby). But the thing was, we didn't mess around. Not only was my family armed, so was all the milita called in to subdue the heathens.

[superchick]

John Galt wrote: superchick wrote: John Galt wrote: Teshuvah wrote: superchick wrote: Am I the only one that is shocked there is not more death in this situation. I know if this was the US we would have had way more than one death by now, especially if it would have lasted 12 days. I don't think it would have lasted 12 days though.


Nope I'm shocked as well. I honestly can't say it was for a lack of trying.

I don't know Frances level of gun control, but I do know what it is here in the states.


That may be the difference.

They lit people on fire.


There would be more death here, yes. Why? Because people like me would shot the hooligans in the face that come near my car. But only the death of the scum rioters.
I haven't seen that rioters have lit people on fire. Not saying I would be surprised, but I haven't seen that yet. I think rioters here would causes more death also, not just deaths of rioters if this was the US. The LA riots after Rodney King lasted 5 days and had over 60 deaths, included average citizens, rioters, police officers, etc. But at the same time, if something like this happened in the US (the 2 youths electricuted)there wouldn't have been riots because that would be a typical day, and mainstream media would say they were guilty.

:lol: Whatever. The kids ran away because they THOUGHT police were chasing them. The riots have gone on so long over in France they have already completed their investigation and determined that the police were not chasing the two boys, they were conducting a different investigation. Now, that to me indicates someone is guilty if they run because they *think* they are being chased. Guilty of what, I do not know, but obviously they had something on their conscience. In any event here people wouldn't flip like they did over nothing. The Rodney King beating only caused riots because A) it was taped and B) the part of the tape that shows Rodney King attacking police before they subdued him (and it took alot because he was high on PCP) was not shown to the public. I was living in San Pedro at the time and could see the downtown burning from my house (well, a hill nearby). But the thing was, we didn't mess around. Not only was my family armed, so was all the milita called in to subdue the heathens.
PCP, LOL LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Now I am not a drug dealer, or drug genius, but in all my years, I have never seen PCP or anyone high on PCP, and I've seen a lot of s**t. I do know that PCP is taken by a lot of criminals that A)get their ass stomped like there is no tomorrow B) gives you the strength of 10 men and C) makes you crazier than a **** rat. Again heard the rumors, and I have never seen it, been offered it, or seen anyone high on it, except when a police officer kills or beats someone senseless, how about you?

[ToonArmyIsComing]

It's quite disturbing really. The fact is this event is being caused by the marginalization of certain sectors of the population. It's quite sad to see it occurring.

[b_moh]

:shock: :shock: :shock: OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE

[morph]

GTTofAK wrote: morph wrote: The cost of empire. It's scary what a populus can do when they are motivated.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The cost of empire? Your rhetoric is pathetic. What empire? France is smaller than some states. It hasn't been an empire since long before you and most of the Muslim youth terrorizing the country were born.

The concept you are missing (and that i am referring to) is that France was an empire -only recently losing control of Algeria, Indochine, and various other regions. I say "recently" because the independence that these regions now have are only really one generation old and in some cases too. Historically we see that cultural tensions have a tendency to be quite deeply rooted, so it is not uncommon to see anger due to an event, or series of events - in particular one's acted out by government - stretched over several generations. I think the results of France's expansionism and the subsequent displacement of populations into France, coupled with the gross poverty, poor representation of these minorities in the community and negative sentiments from government officials confirming them as "outcasts" leads to this kind of response.

Don't forget that in 1962, Algeria fought for independence from France. Hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed by French terrorist actions. It's no wonder that they feel disenfranchised.

[morph]

~SIRIUS~ wrote: PricklySponge wrote: These riots have gone too far. Its time for the french military to step in

:lol: the "French Military" hasn't won a single battle since Napolean :lol:

lot a good that'll do the lot!

Lest we forget the Foreign Legion? Those guys were some serious state-sponsored terrorists responsible for much suffering.

[bbooker]

well what do you expect it's france.