Political Crossfire Forums

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

In the independent today there is an article about drug abuse in a small town in the middle of the countryside:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article324642.ece

They found 1 in 37 people are addicted to crack, this in a town the police believed didn't have any drug problems.

Surely this is yet more evidence that the current drugs policy isn't working and a new radical approach is needed.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Legalise personal use to reduce criminality but come down hard of large scale dealers.

Jajo · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 152

JDnCoke wrote: Legalise personal use to reduce criminality but come down hard of large scale dealers.

Are you saying legalise it so i can go down to Tescos and buy it? or just legalise its use and keep its sale illegal? If it is latter then it would be a legal nightmare.

johnz · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 381 Location: Costa Del Leeds

i say the dealers should be burnt alive, iv lost friends to drugs and i dont blame them at the end of the day,
its the dealers who should be scalped, relentlessly and with passion.

johnz · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 381 Location: Costa Del Leeds

Windy wrote: In the independent today there is an article about drug abuse in a small town in the middle of the countryside:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article324642.ece

They found 1 in 37 people are addicted to crack, this in a town the police believed didn't have any drug problems.

Surely this is yet more evidence that the current drugs policy isn't working and a new radical approach is needed.

Drugs have been around longer than the dinosaurs, do you think if drugs were to be wiped off the map that it wouldnt already have been done?

The human race needs drugs in its population, if it didnt than drugs would have gone a long time ago,

JDnCoke wrote: Legalise personal use to reduce criminality but come down hard of large scale dealers.

Legalization is not possible, the reason for this is because the government cant charge and tax something it has no control over.
if you can grow and nurture your own substances then the government is not in the equation and therefore doesnt profit.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

johnz wrote: Legalization is not possible, the reason for this is because the government cant charge and tax something it has no control over.
if you can grow and nurture your own substances then the government is not in the equation and therefore doesnt profit.

Legalisation doesn't entail taxation. Breathing air is legal and, for now, is not taxed.

Chymical · Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject:

Drug Abuse is a big problem...needs about 70 years of judgement hatred and bigotry removed and put into the therapeutic method, to ensure results...Just as T-W-A-T increases Terrorism, so The Drug War has made the problem worse.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Chymical wrote: Drug Abuse is a big problem...needs about 70 years of judgement hatred and bigotry removed and put into the therapeutic method, to ensure results...Just as T-W-A-T increases Terrorism, so The Drug War has made the problem worse.

Too true.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

johnz wrote:
JDnCoke wrote: Legalise personal use to reduce criminality but come down hard of large scale dealers.

Legalization is not possible, the reason for this is because the government cant charge and tax something it has no control over.
if you can grow and nurture your own substances then the government is not in the equation and therefore doesnt profit.

People can grow their own tobacco.
The government still manages to tax that.

Chymical · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject:

People cannot grow their own tobacco, you need a license

Just like you need a license to grow marijuana---It's not illegal to grow, just illegal to grow without a note from the Minister in charge of the Home Office saying you can do so...

I thought I'd save him the time and wrote myself a note...now I have lots of free weed to give to babies!!! YAY!!!

johnz · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 381 Location: Costa Del Leeds

JDnCoke wrote: johnz wrote: Legalization is not possible, the reason for this is because the government cant charge and tax something it has no control over.
if you can grow and nurture your own substances then the government is not in the equation and therefore doesnt profit.

Legalisation doesn't entail taxation. Breathing air is legal and, for now, is not taxed.

air is a necessity, street drugs are not.

Chymical · Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:45 am Post subject:

Nonetheless Dear Sir, the point remains unrefuted

Legalisation doesn't entail Taxation.

It suggests it, points towards it, some may say even necessitates it, however it does not entail it.

On another note, have concluded harvesting a vast amount of ganja and have already hooked Seven Eleven Year Old Children!

Muhahahahahahaha

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Legalise drugs, it's not the government's right to tell me what I can and cannot do to my own body.

HOWEVER massive drugs dealing is a crime because they don't pay tax and use the money to fund other criminal activities, they also use unacceptable forms of business competition, i.e. gangland warfare. So we crush dealers, which has the (depending where you stand) fortunate/unfortunate effect of reducing the number of drugs on the streets.

The Redcoat · Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 411 Location: Hampshire, England

The drug problems we have are not THAT bad... legalising hard drugs would be a stupid idea.

JDnCoke, if drugs were all legal would you use them any more than you do now? If not, then name something else the government says you can't do to your own body that makes a bit more sense ;).

It doesn't matter if you crush the dealers, no matter where it comes from or who sells it people will still become addicted to it.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: legalising hard drugs would be a stupid idea

Why? The on drugs is a horrible infringement on our freedom anyway. Also the entire effort is completely unwinnable. If the police intercept 50% of the drugs coming to Britain (they're not even remotely close to such a figure) then the price rises, and more people just enter the drugs business.

If the price rises, then so too does crime as addicts can no longer pay for their 'hit' and thus they must steal more. Addicts committing crimes often leads to 'mistakes' like murder etc.

THe more you crack down on drugs the more cut the drugs will be (mixed with other substances) making them significantly more dangerous and unpredictable leading to much greater health risks and fatalities caused by drugs.

The more you interefer in the drugs market the more criminal the outlook of the dealers will be. THey will be always start being fully armed, and this will spill into more shootouts with the police, and with each other.

Now imagine they were legalised and you could watch all those problems evaporate.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

Indeed.

People want to be rich, selling drugs is the easiest and quickest way to get rich, so people do it.

Theres no way you can stop people doing this, the idea of prison simply doesn't work.

Its all very well and good saying your lock someone away for 10 years when people simply don't care if that happens?
Personally I hate the idea because there are things I want to do in my life, a lot of people don't have this and so they sell drugs to get quick money.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

8% of international trade is in illegal drugs.......that's a whole lot of criminals created by prohibition.

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

Quote:
People want to be rich, selling drugs is the easiest and quickest way to get rich, so people do it.

Quite a lot of poorer farmers grow drugs because they return more money per acre of farmland. These farmers cannot be blamed, someone in poverty does whatever they can to keep themselves and their family alive.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Quite a lot of poorer farmers grow drugs because they return more money per acre of farmland. These farmers cannot be blamed, someone in poverty does whatever they can to keep themselves and their family alive.

and they are harming no-one just engaging in a little entrepreneurial action.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Reason wrote: and they are harming no-one just engaging in a little entrepreneurial action.

That's debatable (on look we're on a debating forum!).

While engaging in said entrepreneurial action, they place themselves at the mercy of local warlords who just seek money & power from such a lucrative trade, they also reduce their ability to survive for example in a drought because they have no food. Not to mention the fact that they (indirectly) cause the misery of drug abuse in the countries who trade with them, though I don't blame the farmers since the repressive trade system (hello CAP) has driven the price of food so ridiculously low that they might as well sell rocks from the hills.