Political Crossfire Forums

HarmonyOnTheRight · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: BNP Dying

I think the BNP are dying and my heart bleeds - NOT

Where the disillusioned give them credence by voting for them and electing them as councillors, it just gives a taste of what they really are, useless.

In the Grays Riverside by-election yesterday, caused by the resignation of a Labour councillor, the BNP tried hard to recapture the seat they won in a by-election in 2003.

Then they polled 552. They lost the seat in 2004 when they polled 479 votes and came third and yesterday they polled 330 votes, third again.

Rest in pieces

The Redcoat · Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 411 Location: Hampshire, England

The BNP will always exsist in some form or another, no matter how small.

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

The smaller the better...

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

They scored a record vote at the last election, I think. THere loss in the by-election could easily be becaus of population changes in the area. I, obviously, detest everything thing the authouritarain BNP stand for, but they aren't getting smllaer (of course they've got not hope of mainstream power, though).

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Reason wrote: They scored a record vote at the last election, I think. THere loss in the by-election could easily be becaus of population changes in the area. I, obviously, detest everything thing the authouritarain BNP stand for, but they aren't getting smllaer (of course they've got not hope of mainstream power, though).

Hah, it doesn't matter anyway, Labour are already instituting many of there bloody measures!

The_Right_Honourable · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 682 Location: UK (mostly)

The last election results were just ordinary people moronic response to the whole 'Iraq Debacle' and im sure things will be better next time around. It never ceases to amaze me how fickle most people are...

Lord Hargreaves · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 7171 Location: Herefordshire

So where are the BNP votes going?

HarmonyOnTheRight · Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject:

The BNP votes were a collection of Labour, LibDem and Conservatives who then realise they are a protest not worth the effort cos they dont deliver.

So many of their activists talked to me and said we are ordinary people, we're not fascist or racist, but they are. Im very in tune with Tory councillors in Thurrock, my breeding ground where Ive helped many a Tory get elected.

My friend Cllr Daniels, is a Black Tory councillor and at the count BNP activists said in her earshot 'I can smell **** in the air' and described a Spanish Tory councillor as a 'dirty diego'.

When you think what patriots we are, what a disgusting tribute to this country the BNP are in their proclamation of being British

Eton · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject:

No Lib Dem or Labour supporter would turn to the BNP as a protest vote - more likely they would vote Green.

The only place BNP supporters come from is the right of the tory party who think that the Conservatives have gone 'soft', which is news to me because the tories already seem pretty extreme.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: No Lib Dem or Labour supporter would turn to the BNP as a protest vote - more likely they would vote Green.

The BNP are socialist, so it seems likely that supporters of the two parties you mention could have BNP sympathies.

Eton · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: No Lib Dem or Labour supporter would turn to the BNP as a protest vote - more likely they would vote Green.

The BNP are socialist, so it seems likely that supporters of the two parties you mention could have BNP sympathies.

The BNP are fascist, which means they believe in corporatism.
But to take your line of thinking, I rather suspect it is more likely that the Lib Dems/Labour sort would vote for the Greens, Socialists Workers, Scottish Socialists and any communists if we have any.

People don't vote for the BNP because of their economic views, they vote for them because of their social views and therefore it pits them ever so slightly to the right of the Conservatives.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: The BNP are fascist, which means they believe in corporatism.

Which is basically the same as syndicalism, Mosely was corporatist before WWII and syndicalist afterwards - both are forms of socialism.

Quote: People don't vote for the BNP because of their economic views, they vote for them because of their social views and therefore it pits them ever so slightly to the right of the Conservatives.

If that's true then the BNP would change their economic views to something more popular. People vote for the BNP's underlying philosphy - collectivism. Which legitimises the same authrouritarainism whoever it's proposed by, be it Socialists, Communists, Ecologists, Facsist, Theocrats, Nationalists etc etc.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Reason wrote: Quote: The BNP are fascist, which means they believe in corporatism.

Which is basically the same as syndicalism, Mosely was corporatist before WWII and syndicalist afterwards - both are forms of socialism.

Quote: People don't vote for the BNP because of their economic views, they vote for them because of their social views and therefore it pits them ever so slightly to the right of the Conservatives.

If that's true then the BNP would change their economic views to something more popular. People vote for the BNP's underlying philosphy - collectivism. Which legitimises the same authrouritarainism whoever it's proposed by, be it Socialists, Communists, Ecologists, Facsist, Theocrats, Nationalists etc etc.

I think you're getting authoritarianism and totalitarianism confused.

Eton · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: The BNP are fascist, which means they believe in corporatism.

Which is basically the same as syndicalism, Mosely was corporatist before WWII and syndicalist afterwards - both are forms of socialism.

Quote: People don't vote for the BNP because of their economic views, they vote for them because of their social views and therefore it pits them ever so slightly to the right of the Conservatives.

If that's true then the BNP would change their economic views to something more popular. People vote for the BNP's underlying philosphy - collectivism. Which legitimises the same authrouritarainism whoever it's proposed by, be it Socialists, Communists, Ecologists, Facsist, Theocrats, Nationalists etc etc.

Yeah, you're not really convincing anyone.
If the people wanted a command economy then they would vote for the communists. If they want to pull out of the EU, kick out all immigrants and repeal liberal laws guarding our civil rights they will vote Conser....BNP.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

Eton wrote: No Lib Dem or Labour supporter would turn to the BNP as a protest vote - more likely they would vote Green.

The only place BNP supporters come from is the right of the tory party who think that the Conservatives have gone 'soft', which is news to me because the tories already seem pretty extreme.

Why do you say that? Are Labour and Lib Dem voters not racist? I think you'll find that the BNP are only successful in the inner cities where Labour used to win. An indication that they are taking Labours votes.
Most likely the votes they are getting are from the people who never normally vote and vote for them because they are stupid racist morons who think that Muslims are going to take over the country.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Why do you say that? Are Labour and Lib Dem voters not racist? I think you'll find that the BNP are only successful in the inner cities where Labour used to win. An indication that they are taking Labours votes.

Especially in places like Bradford, that should be guaranteed labour territory.

Quote: If the people wanted a command economy then they would vote for the communists.

They might want the BNP's policies aswell, once you've finished nationalising industries you'll start nationalising people, and that's the BNP.
Quote:
If they want to pull out of the EU, kick out all immigrants and repeal liberal laws guarding our civil rights they will vote Conser....BNP.

The EU is NOT a liberal institution. It is the reason why we are getting ID cards for example. The Conservatives are the best current protection of our civil liberties.

The BNP are much like an extreme version of Labour. Not surpising that they get Labour's votes is it

HarmonyOnTheRight · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:26 am Post subject:

I'm sorry Eton but you obviosuly haven't done much political canvassing. The BNP vote is a mix of all three parties.There is no one train of thought in any set of people as to why they vote for a political party.

I have been a councillor and campaigned against the BNP in 4 boroughs and stand by what I said through my experiences.

Yes there are Tories who have joined the BNP and I know of Tony Young, an ex-Labour councillor in Redbridge who has done the same, so I feel vindicated.

The BNP are for all merits National Socialists - like the Nazis. Labelling them Far Right as a means to denigrate the centre-Right altogether really isn't conducive to good politics. In fact calling the Tories extreme just abuses the word and moderates it when it should be really used.

Nazis maybe Nationalist (a rightwing tendency) but they are also Socialist (a leftwing tendency). Accpet it as read

The Beautiful Letters · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 16

I have little sympathy for the BNP, but I don't think calling them "Nazis" is accruate. They are not (at least in terms of policies, obviously I can't speak for individual members) against free speech, freedom of religion, the rule of law and justice, war-like in any particular way etc - nor have any of their immigration and "deportation" policies - while clearly racist - approved of killing or any sort of violence.

I'm certainly not going to cry over their demise, but I wish people would engage brain a bit more and less emotional knee-jerk reponses.

HarmonyOnTheRight · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:

Unfortunately, your policies are only as good as your members and whereas the BNP might advocate free speech etc etc etc, in practice its generally only when its white nationalists, bigoted and prejudiced. When did you read the BNP supporting Muslims right to worship and speak out about issues in their Islamophobic literature.

I recall BNP member David Copeland bombing east London, leaving bombs in gay parts, Brixton and Brick Lane and baby getting a 4in nail stuck in his head. Or maybe Tony Lecomber, the convicted nasty man of BNP politics.

Their politics breeds these vile people. Read behind the lines. But I wouldnt imagine being abroad you'd of had the experience of them

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Reason wrote: The EU is NOT a liberal institution. It is the reason why we are getting ID cards for example. The Conservatives are the best current protection of our civil liberties.

Eh, I'll think you'll find that the EU is one of the few things preventing us from getting ID Cards, since citizens can appeal to the European Court of Human Rights if such measure were imposed.

The EU is a liberal institution, but not a Liberal one, which I think you meant.