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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: Interesting website. |
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I just wanted to share it with you.
http://towardblog.blogspot.com/ |
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Israel
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:31 am Post subject: Re: Interesting website. |
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cap'n queasy wrote: I just wanted to share it with you.
http://towardblog.blogspot.com/
Thanks for sharing. . . :-|
Edit: 2000th post. |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:06 am Post subject: |
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It is interesting. They dissed Jews for Jesus. :)
In any case, do they believe Jesus is god? I didn't find it on their site. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Duchifas wrote: It is interesting. They dissed Jews for Jesus. :)
In any case, do they believe Jesus is god? I didn't find it on their site.
How did they diss Jews? They are Messianic Jews.
They just don't diss the annointed one. |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: Duchifas wrote: It is interesting. They dissed Jews for Jesus. :)
In any case, do they believe Jesus is god? I didn't find it on their site.
How did they diss Jews? They are Messianic Jews.
They just don't diss the annointed one.
----
EDIT
All religious Jews are Messianic Jews, cap'n. I personally know hundreds of religious Jews, and I don't know even one who does not believe in the concept of Messiah. So we are all Messianic.
The irony begins when some folks who ascribe messiaship to Jesus label themselves Messianic, as if everyone else isn't. But in fact, they are no more messianic than I am. THey just pretend that the Christian messiah is the real one. Ok, so? And if think it ain't him, I am not messianic suddenly?
Labeling them messianic is like saying that Kia is a car and implying that Ford Expedition isn't.
To be more accurate, they should label themselves Jesusianic. But of course, this being a free country, they can name themselves anything they want. They can be Messianic Dalai Lamas for all I care.
The funnier, the better.
---
Let me rephrase: they dissed "Jews for Jesus." Meaning these guys --> http://www.jewsforjesus.org/
You did read the site, didn't you?
Quote: A Neo-Berean Looks at Jews for Jesus: Living in Grace or Living in Sin?
Jews for Jesus affirms Jewish believers who, for the sake of honoring our heritage and developing a Jewish testimony, choose to give up some of what grace allows to conform to dietary standards and various other Jewish practices. As long as such practices are not presented as incumbent upon others in the body of Messiah, Jewish or Gentile, we hope to be an encouragement to those who desire to uphold their Jewish identity in this way.
(from Fall 2003 Havurah, a publication of Jews for Jesus)
The above quote from JFJ's Havurah newsletter was looked at in a previous post.
In this post I want to look further at this statement from Jews for Jesus.
In their statement above they put forward that a Messianic Jew can observe Torah commands if they choose to give up some of what grace allows to conform to dietary standards and various other Jewish practices.
Torah observance is not an "abandoning of grace", but an embracing of obedience to G-d.
Observing kashrut, Shabbat, the Festivals and other Torah commands is an act of obeying G-d and faithfulness to the covenant G-d made with all the Jewish People.
If we choose not to obey Torah commands we are not "living in grace", but "living in sin".
Non-observance of Torah commands is an act of disobeying G-d and not walking in His ways, not a benefit of being a follower of the Messiah.
Torah observance like dietary standards and various other Jewish practices is not just shtik to be used for evangelistic outreach (which sadly is the case for Jews for Jesus and other Jewish missions), but it is a matter of obeying G-d and living lives that honor Him.
I close with a statement by another Messianic Jew on the topic of grace and sin:
What may we say, then? are we to go on in sin so that there may be more grace?
In no way. How may we, who are dead to sin, be living in it any longer?
(Romans 6:1-2)
Let us live in obedience to G-d and observe His Torah!
Speaking of which, this site's ideology is 180 degrees reverse of what you and John believe:
Quote: Torah observance is not an "abandoning of grace", but an embracing of obedience to G-d.
Observing kashrut, Shabbat, the Festivals and other Torah commands is an act of obeying G-d and faithfulness to the covenant G-d made with all the Jewish People.
If we choose not to obey Torah commands we are not "living in grace", but "living in sin".
Non-observance of Torah commands is an act of disobeying G-d and not walking in His ways, not a benefit of being a follower of the Messiah.
You disagree with the bolded statement, don't you, cap'n? ;)
The quotes are from the site you provided, just scroll down to find them there. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: Duchifas wrote: It is interesting. They dissed Jews for Jesus. :)
In any case, do they believe Jesus is god? I didn't find it on their site.
How did they diss Jews? They are Messianic Jews.
They just don't diss the annointed one.
I think he's talking about the organization..Jews for Jesus.
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/ |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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:lol:
I didn't see the "for Jesus" part.
How could I have missed that?
Quote: All religious Jews are Messianic Jews, cap'n. I personally know hundreds of religious Jews, and I don't know even one who does not believe in the concept of Messiah. So we are all Messianic.
Fair enough.
I must stop now because I promised you not to prove that Y'shua was the Messiah on the Judaism forum any more. :wink: |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: I must stop now because I promised you not to prove that Y'shua was the Messiah on the Judaism forum any more.
That's about what it boils down to. :) |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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John wrote: Quote: I must stop now because I promised you not to prove that Y'shua was the Messiah on the Judaism forum any more.
:rotf:
That's about what it boils down to. Too funny.
Yup, it's kinda funny. :lol:
But hey, it's only fair, Jesus has a forum of his own - Christianity. After all, Christianity is centered around Jesus. So essentially Christianity forum is a Jesus forum.
If people want chat about Torah, they are welcome to do it here. If they want to chat about Mohammed, there is an Islam forum. And when I want to chat about Jesus, I stop by the Christianity forum.
Seems like a decent arrangement to me. You wouldn't want to chat with say...democrats and commies in Constitution HQ, would you?
Separate but equal, baby! :) |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: Seems like a decent arrangement to me.
Then it's agreed.
I'll go now. :wink: |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: Seems like a decent arrangement to me. You wouldn't want to chat with say...democrats and commies in Constitution HQ, would you?
Hey..we'd be willing to talk to anyone in there....
:lol: |
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Duchifas
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 9950
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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You saying it's empty?
What are the basics? Maybe I should join. I only vote Republican for lack of better options.
What do I need to gain access? |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Duchifas wrote: You saying it's empty?
What are the basics? Maybe I should join. I only vote Republican for lack of better options.
What do I need to gain access?
The desire.
Go to user groups to join and check it out. I think you would fit in quite well. And I think the CP will fit your ideology pretty good too. As far as I can see anyway.
It's about God, Family, and Patriotism. We believe in the ideals this country was founded on. I think you do too. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Yep...what he said. :-D |
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Teshuvah
Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: But hey, it's only fair, Jesus has a forum of his own - Christianity. After all, Christianity is centered around Jesus.
My view is christianity is far more about Paul and catholic tradition, than 'Jesus'. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Teshuvah wrote: Quote: But hey, it's only fair, Jesus has a forum of his own - Christianity. After all, Christianity is centered around Jesus.
My view is christianity is far more about Paul and catholic tradition, than 'Jesus'.
How so? |
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Teshuvah
Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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"How so?"
Because 'Jesus' was a Torah observant Jew, and endorsed its teachings, and told his followers to adhere to them.
Without Paul, and the catholic church, Christianity would be still celebrating the sabbath that 'Jesus' did.
thats just the tip of the iceberg. :) |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Duchifas wrote: But hey, it's only fair, Jesus has a forum of his own - Christianity. After all, Christianity is centered around Jesus. So essentially Christianity forum is a Jesus forum.
If only every "Christian" understood it so well. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22511
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:30 am Post subject: |
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Teshuvah wrote: "How so?"
Because 'Jesus' was a Torah observant Jew, and endorsed its teachings, and told his followers to adhere to them.
Without Paul, and the catholic church, Christianity would be still celebrating the sabbath that 'Jesus' did.
thats just the tip of the iceberg. :)
Have you read the book of Acts? |
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Teshuvah
Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Quote: Have you read the book of Acts
The one written by Pauls press agent, Luke?
Yes, Indeed I have. Many times.
Growing up in a non-denominational christian atmosphere I've read everything in the NT over a dozen times.
I still read it occassionally. But not because I believe it to be the inspired word of G-d.
What is your thinking, about acts specifically, in regards to our current discussion? |
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