Political Crossfire Forums

AKAMad · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Birmingham

weechucky wrote:
Secondly this is entirely about the "British" having the right to control the occupied 6 counties. The supporters of the union in this state are the descendants of settlers in Ireland, they do not have to say they are Irish if they don't want to but the have to accept that they are living in Ireland and must accept that the Irish people have a right to self-governance!

When the Irish people exercised their right to self-governance, they voted to screw your united ireland. This referendum hasn't sunk in has it ?
weechucky wrote:
The English invaded Ireland centuries ago and have kept control since.The 26 free state counties were freed from English oppression in 1921 but the other 6 counties still remain under foreign rule.

Spare me the history lesson, please. There is something really sad about someone whining about the Middle Ages.
weechucky wrote:
Read up on your history, this phase of the conflict started in 1969 with the arrival of the British armed forces but this is a war that has been going on a lot longer than that.
You just couldn't spare me the history lesson.
How about facing the reality of the present. 'The Irish people' does not exist. If it did, we wouldn't have to build walls etc.. to stop you butchering each other.
weechucky wrote:
Also the GFA you speak of does not move us any closer to a united Ireland. My Father would have been ashamed to have been part of the SF party that signed that agreement. As part of that agreement SF and the Irish government both had to withdraw the Irish claim of sovereignty over the 6 counties.
This referendum really hasn't sunk in has it ?
You do seem to have trouble understanding nobody wants you.
It is a pity, because then you might concentrate on getting on with each other.

thundertaker · Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:20 am Post subject:

Quote:
Read up on your history, this phase of the conflict started in 1969 with the arrival of the British armed forces but this is a war that has been going on a lot longer than that.

Read up on your history. Find out why those troops were sent to NI then get back t us.....

FinnMacCool · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 2731

Hey irish guys, don't bash the americans who have an opinion on the matter! A lot of americans are just as Irish as you are. And don't forget what the americans did for you guys! We supplied your IRA with weapons and we gave you guys a lot of funding. We also rescued some of your fenians who were stuck in Australia

social · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:02 am Post subject:

When national allegiance is concerned why do I always hear, no matter how sensitive the situation, a stupid appeal to "what our country did for your country in the past"? The fact that some people who happened to be American helped other people who happened to be Irish doesn't mean Irish people are forever in debt to Americans; and nor does it, for that matter, mean all Irish people should abstain from criticising Americans, when there is particularly good reason to do so.

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

FinnMacCool wrote: Hey irish guys, don't bash the americans who have an opinion on the matter! A lot of americans are just as Irish as you are. And don't forget what the americans did for you guys! We supplied your IRA with weapons and we gave you guys a lot of funding. We also rescued some of your fenians who were stuck in Australia

To that I can only respond with the words of a true Irishman:

Bono wrote: "Let me tell you something. I have had enough of Irish-Americans who haven't been back to 'their country' in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about 'the resistance', 'the revolution' back home and the 'glory' of the revolution and the glory of 'dying' for the revolution. f**k the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of KILLING for the revolution! What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day? Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of the revolution, that the majority of the people in my country don't want? Sing NO MORE!"

FinnMacCool · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 2731

Well I don't support the IRA I was just pointing out that the average Irishman's overall disdain for an Irish-Americans opinion on the matter of "The Troubles" doesn't make it unworthy simply because he doesn't live in Ireland. If that were true, then you would also have to agree that Irishmen should have no opinion or say in the matter of the "War in Iraq" Of course it could be understood why the average Irishman would be annoyed at the intellectual stupidity of the american with no comprehension of the subject as a whole but it is still rather insulting that many of us, who having retained our own culture here in America, have been subject to such disdain and hatred.

thundertaker · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject:

Wow, Bono actually said something that made sense. Good on him......

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

Quote: Of course it could be understood why the average Irishman would be annoyed at the intellectual stupidity of the american with no comprehension of the subject as a whole but it is still rather insulting that many of us, who having retained our own culture here in America, have been subject to such disdain and hatred.

The counter argument to that is that whilst you may have retained your culture you have lost identification with the events 'back home'.

AKAMad · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Birmingham

FinnMacCool wrote: Hey irish guys, don't bash the americans who have an opinion on the matter! A lot of americans are just as Irish as you are. And don't forget what the americans did for you guys! We supplied your IRA with weapons and we gave you guys a lot of funding. We also rescued some of your fenians who were stuck in Australia
You can be sure that the English will remember.

FinnMacCool · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 2731

Pebble wrote: Quote: Of course it could be understood why the average Irishman would be annoyed at the intellectual stupidity of the american with no comprehension of the subject as a whole but it is still rather insulting that many of us, who having retained our own culture here in America, have been subject to such disdain and hatred.

The counter argument to that is that whilst you may have retained your culture you have lost identification with the events 'back home'. Perhaps, but not for all. Many of my family members read stuff like the 'Irish Echo' and keep in touch with the news oever. I can't speak for the rest of us though.

Basically, to sum it up, broad generalizations are always bad.

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

FinnMacCool wrote: Pebble wrote: Quote: Of course it could be understood why the average Irishman would be annoyed at the intellectual stupidity of the american with no comprehension of the subject as a whole but it is still rather insulting that many of us, who having retained our own culture here in America, have been subject to such disdain and hatred.

The counter argument to that is that whilst you may have retained your culture you have lost identification with the events 'back home'. Perhaps, but not for all. Many of my family members read stuff like the 'Irish Echo' and keep in touch with the news oever. I can't speak for the rest of us though.

Basically, to sum it up, broad generalizations are always bad.

Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.

social · Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:41 am Post subject:

FinnMacCool wrote: Well I don't support the IRA I was just pointing out that the average Irishman's overall disdain for an Irish-Americans opinion on the matter of "The Troubles" doesn't make it unworthy simply because he doesn't live in Ireland.

Yes, but you didn't cast this opinion in such carefully-chosen terms in your previous post...

FinnMacCool wrote: Hey irish guys, don't bash the americans who have an opinion on the matter...And don't forget what the americans did for you guys...We gave you guys a lot of funding. We also rescued some of your fenians who were stuck in Australia

...which implied: all Irish people should abstain from criticising Americans, even when there is particularly good reason to do so, because Irish people are forever in debt to Americans.

FinMacCool wrote: If that were true, then you would also have to agree that Irishmen should have no opinion or say in the matter of the "War in Iraq" Of course it could be understood why the average Irishman would be annoyed at the intellectual stupidity of the american with no comprehension of the subject as a whole but it is still rather insulting that many of us, who having retained our own culture here in America, have been subject to such disdain and hatred.

You understand neither the situation nor the sensitivity with which it should be properly dealt. If an Irish man treats an American-Irish man with hatred and disdain, you should not turn the case into an Irish vs. American-Irish national dispute.... What good is this going to do? Seriously. What right do you have to make such a broad generalisation on the basis of so few cases that you're actually aware of?... Not all Irish people hate Irish-Americans. In fact, the majority of them don't hate Irish-Americans, as I think you'll find out if you actually go to Ireland and meet the people famous for thier kindness, hospitality and general tolerance.

FinnMacCool · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 2731

Yeah cause thats what I really was trying to do :roll:

social · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject:

Well what were you trying to do? You said (and I quote) "Hey irish guys, don't bash the americans who have an opinion on the matter...And don't forget what the americans did for you guys...We gave you guys a lot of funding. We also rescued some of your fenians who were stuck in Australia." You also said Irish-Americans "have been subject to such disdain and hatred" on the part of Irish people. So, what were you trying to do?

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1695 Location: Cardiff

What a load of bollox this threads really is. We have dumb asses speaking from every corner of the world.......give me a break.

BLHutch · Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Texas

I am 100% Irish-American (both sides of my family......My Mother's family from County Carlow and my Father's family from County Wicklow). I must say that I have never, ever been subjected to hatred or disdain from any Irishman (or woman). In fact, the opposite is true. I've been "home" twice now, and I have never been treated better in my life. Folks went out of their way to make me feel welcome. A wonderful country, Ireland.

And to answer the question, Ireland should not "come home" to England. That implies that Ireland was somehow English to begin with.

Brady

thundertaker · Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject:

BLHutch wrote: I am 100% Irish-American (both sides of my family......My Mother's family from County Carlow and my Father's family from County Wicklow). I must say that I have never, ever been subjected to hatred or disdain from any Irishman (or woman). In fact, the opposite is true. I've been "home" twice now, and I have never been treated better in my life. Folks went out of their way to make me feel welcome. A wonderful country, Ireland.

And to answer the question, Ireland should not "come home" to England. That implies that Ireland was somehow English to begin with.

Brady

Did you try spouting off about the 'glorious IRA?' That might have increased your chances of being subjected to disdain by real Irish people......

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1695 Location: Cardiff

Whilst we are at it why don't the US give back Hawaii which they murdered and tortured in order to gain. And why not mention the Phillipines were American soldiers murdered and raped 500,000 civilians. It's all in your history books guys, but I doubt you get taught it at school. But it wasn't called empire,but manifesy destiny.

Quote: "We need Hawaii just as much and a good deal more than
we did California. It is Manifest Destiny."
William McKinley

Quote: Major Edwin Glenn did not deny that he made forty-seven prisoners kneel and "repent of their sins" before ordering them bayoneted and clubbed to death.[9]

Quote: I personally strung up thirty-five Filipinos without trial, so what was all the fuss over Waller's "dispatching" a few "treacherous savages"? If there had been more Smiths and Wallers, the war would have been over long ago. Impromptu domestic hanging might also hasten the end of the war. For starters, all Americans who had recently petitioned Congress to sue for peace in the Phillipines should be dragged out of their homes and lynched.--Colonel Frederick Funston at a banquet in Chicago. [8]

Quote: Obtain information from natives no matter what measures have to be adopted."--General Adna Chaffee [10]

Quote: It may be necessary to kill half the Filipinos in order that the remaining half of the population may be advanced to a higher plane of life than their present semi-barbarous state affords."--General William Shafter[11]

Quote: "They were the first goo-goos I ever saw turn white."--Claude F. Line, a young private, described not only his love of home and family, but also his delight at terrifying two Filipino civilians

Quote: "It makes me sick to see what has been said about him (General Jacob H. Smith). If people knew what a thieving, treacherous, worthless bunch of scoundrels those Filipinos are, they would think differently than they do now. You can't treat them the way you do civilized folks. I do not believe that there are half a dozen men in the U.S. army that don't think Smith is all right."--Smith's medical officer[16]

Quote: "The water cure is an old Filipino method of mild torture. Nobody was seriously damaged whereas the Filipinos had inflicted incredible tortures on our people." --President Theodore Roosevelt

Quote: A man is thrown down on his back and three or four men sit or stand on his arms and legs and hold him down; and either a gun barrel or a rifle barrel or a carbine barrel or a stick as big as a belaying pin, -- that is, with an inch circumference, -- is simply thrust into his jaws and his jaws are thrust back, and, if possible, a wooden log or stone is put under his head or neck, so he can be held more firmly. In the case of very old men I have seen their teeth fall out, -- I mean when it was done a little roughly. He is simply held down and then water is poured onto his face down his throat and nose from a jar; and that is kept up until the man gives some sign or becomes unconscious. And, when he becomes unconscious, he is simply rolled aside and he is allowed to come to. In almost every case the men have been a little roughly handled. They were rolled aside rudely, so that water was expelled. A man suffers tremendously, there is no doubt about it. His sufferings must be that of a man who is drowning, but cannot drown. ... I did not stop it, because I had no right to.... Major Geary was about sixty yards away. --Lieutenant Grover Flint; S. Doc. 331, 57 Congressional 1 Session (1903), page 1767-1768

So do we need a lecture from Americans?? I don't think so. And thanks to all the Americans who sponsored Noraid, thanks for supporting a terrorist group who were trained by Ghaddafi, who in turn sponsored many other militant groups. Makes this war on terror a joke really when Americans of'Irish' decent have been doing it for years. Personelly I say give NI to the Irish,but to tell the truth I don't think they have the resources, skills or stomach for another civil war. Instead the UK is left with a boil on it's backside thanks to a Dutch king and a religious crusade.

red dragon · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1695 Location: Cardiff

weechucky wrote: Quote: weechucky wrote:
the problem arises when anyone claims that the English have a right to claim control or authority over Irish soil!!

First of all, it's the British who have sovereignty over NI, not just the English.

Secondly, this isn't about the British having the 'right' to control Northern Ireland. It's about respecting the fact that the majority of the population of Northern Ireland wishes to remain in the UK. And until that day, we are obliged to maintain a prescence there, much as we'd like to get shot of the bastards.....

The British nation and nationality were created by the English as part of their Empire. I do not recognise it as a legitimate nation or nationality.

Secondly this is entirely about the "British" having the right to control the occupied 6 counties. The supporters of the union in this state are the descendants of settlers in Ireland, they do not have to say they are Irish if they don't want to but the have to accept that they are living in Ireland and must accept that the Irish people have a right to self-governance!

Quote: The English didn't claim the right to control Irish soil until 1969, when it was the Protestants who we considered scum. Of course, we became more even-handed in our contempt later on
As soon as the Northern Irish stop arguing over whatever, you can have control of your territory and if you want a united Ireland, you can have it. Have you heard of the GFA

You clearly do not have any idea what you are talking about.

The English invaded Ireland centuries ago and have kept control since.The 26 free state counties were freed from English oppression in 1921 but the other 6 counties still remain under foreign rule.

Read up on your history, this phase of the conflict started in 1969 with the arrival of the British armed forces but this is a war that has been going on a lot longer than that.

Also the GFA you speak of does not move us any closer to a united Ireland. My Father would have been ashamed to have been part of the SF party that signed that agreement. As part of that agreement SF and the Irish government both had to withdraw the Irish claim of sovereignty over the 6 counties.

Your so full of crap it's unbelievable. It was dutchman who invaded Ireland beating the Catholics at the battle of the Boyne (as we see the stupid religious nutcases of the Orange order who sadly still exist). This was a conotation of the glorious revolution, so Britain in a way was invaded also in a neffarious outcome. It all had to do with religion, Ireland is still a very religious country and so is NI split in two with religion. I can't wait for the UK to hand over that sorry mess right back into your laps. And I do not mean that in a vindictive way, because you know what's going to happen and it's going to set back the Celtic tiger economy years.

Ireland is enjoying a boom time right now and I very pleased for the country, especially a lot of my friends and colleagues who I have worked with from Ireland are the most decent and gratious people that I have ever met. Especially the guys I met in Prague in a bar called Rocky O'Malleys whilst watching the rugby. But to be honest I haven't the time nor the patience to listen to people like you with their stupid backward thinking mentallity who to be honest are wreckers and jaded rather than lokking to the future and the start of a peacful time with the GFA and hopefully the uniting of Ireland through dialogue and peaceful means.

social · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:

You have perhaps the funniest avatar I've seen in a long time!