Political Crossfire Forums

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Quote: You know that you are saved through......personal revelation, I presume? Or am I wrong?


Personal revelation + God's word = Knowing. :wink:

See, that wasn't hard. So you did have a personal revelation?

So tell us about it. What was it like? Who said what? Where was it? How many were there? Give us the scoop. Was it a voice? Was it a light? Pillar of fire? Dream?

It's very interesting, at least to me.

[John]

Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Duchifas wrote: Well, essentially, that's Almar's reasoning. He just knows that he knows that he knows.

Do you believe him?

I haven't had this conversation with him. He just seems like a crazy guy to me.

Why? He says he had a revelation. What's so crazy about that?

You also claim you had a type of revelation, although you phrase it differently. He says G-d revealed Himself to him, and you say G-d put a "knowing" into you. Different semantics, same idea.

So why do you think that he is crazy and that you aren't?

Because I'm me...and I know I'm telling the truth.

I guess there is the possibility that I'm crazy...I'll give you that.

[Duchifas]

John wrote: Because I'm me...and I know I'm telling the truth.

I guess there is the possibility that I'm crazy...I'll give you that.

:tu:

[John]

Duchifas wrote: John wrote: Quote: You know that you are saved through......personal revelation, I presume? Or am I wrong?


Personal revelation + God's word = Knowing. :wink:

See, that wasn't hard. So you did have a personal revelation?

So tell us about it. What was it like? Who said what? Where was it? How many were there? Give us the scoop. Was it a voice? Was it a light? Pillar of fire? Dream?

It's very interesting, at least to me.

I wasn't anything like that. It was just like a switch went off inside of me and changed what I was interested in and how I felt about things. Like I said...it's not something that's gonna make any sense to you if you haven't experienced it.

I actually have had some things revealed to me (because I asked)..as in I’ve seen some stuff. But that’s not something I just share with anyone, and it isn’t why I believe I’m saved…(it could be explained away with other explanations that is). These types of “revelations” are not the convincing kind.

[Duchifas]

John wrote: I wasn't anything like that. It was just like a switch went off inside of me and changed what I was interested in and how I felt about things. Like I said...it's not something that's gonna make any sense to you if you haven't experienced it.

Well, I have experienced it. One day I just decided to go to lawschool. And it was just like that - like a switch going off. Never planned on it before, really.

Was it really that simple in your case? That's what you call born again?

It happens to different people all the time. Someone who is struggling with weight issues wakes up one morning and decides that enough is enough and goes on a strict diet and an exercise regimen. Or someone who gets a heart attack at 45 decides that enough is enough and starts running every morning (I know someone like that). Or someone is working their way up the corporate ladder, day after day, in the cubicle -- and then one day a switch just goes off in their head and they abandon it all and start an amazon.com or an ebay.com.

So this switch thing happens all the time to all kinds of people. In fact, I would posit that statistically speaking, at this very moment somewhere in America, a switch is going off in someone for something or other.

Was it really as simple as that in your case?

Quote: I actually have had some things revealed to me (because I asked)..as in I’ve seen some stuff. But that’s not something I just share with anyone, and it isn’t why I believe I’m saved…(it could be explained away with other explanations that is). These types of “revelations” are not the convincing kind.

You don't want to share that?

[cap'n queasy]

So.

I have a question about traditional Judaism.

What is the punishment for forgetting the Sabbath years and the Jubilees?

[Duchifas]

cap'n queasy wrote: So.

I have a question about traditional Judaism.

What is the punishment for forgetting the Sabbath years and the Jubilees?

Exile, as far as I remember.

[psholtz]

John wrote: Not everyone in Hell will have an equivalent fate as not everyone in Heaven will enjoy the same rewards.
"Hell" sounds pretty equivalent (and final) to me, at least in my conception..

Perhaps instead of using the word "Hell" here above, you mean instead the Catholic idea of Purgatory?

What you're describing sure sounds more like Purgatory..

Quote: But if Jeffrey truly accepted the Lord as his savior, then he was forgiven.
Sure, but he probably still had *lots* of excess karmic baggage to work off.. I don't think he'd be able to successful atone for his sins in the space of a couple years time.. Give it four or five lifetimes (incarnations) at least..

Quote: Christianity isn't an elite club...
In fact, it is. See Matthew 13:11 for more details.

The Club is open to *everyone*, regardless of race, color, creed or (perhaps ironically) religion.. Knock and the door shall be opened, seek and you shall find. However, to think that you can just "profess" w/ your "lips" that you "believe" in Jesus, and that you'll be "magically" saved, is (imho) .. childish..

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: So how can you tell if a person who says he is born again is not truly born again?
The ones who are truly born again never admit to it (and will never ever discuss it in public).. Instead, like the Nazarene of old, they prefer to quietly and responsibly live in such a manner so that their own lives become a Living Testament to the God in whom they believe, and the God whom they know has saved their Souls, and the God to whom they owe everything.

Words are cheap, and a man is known by the fruit he bears.

[Duchifas]

psholtz wrote: Duchifas wrote: So how can you tell if a person who says he is born again is not truly born again?
The ones who are truly born again never admit to it (and will never ever discuss it in public).. Instead, like the Nazarene of old, they prefer to quietly and responsibly live in such a manner so that their own lives become a Living Testament to the God in whom they believe, and the God whom they know has saved their Souls, and the God to whom they owe everything.

Words are cheap, and a man is known by the fruit he bears.

There is an analogous attitude in Judaism regarding people running around talking about who Messiah is and when he is coming. Which happens every few hundred years or so, when false Messiahs come baout.

I believe it was attributed to the Vilna Gaon -- "Those who know when Messiah will come, know about it. Those who don't know, they scream about it."

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: psholtz wrote: Duchifas wrote: So how can you tell if a person who says he is born again is not truly born again?
The ones who are truly born again never admit to it (and will never ever discuss it in public).. Instead, like the Nazarene of old, they prefer to quietly and responsibly live in such a manner so that their own lives become a Living Testament to the God in whom they believe, and the God whom they know has saved their Souls, and the God to whom they owe everything.

Words are cheap, and a man is known by the fruit he bears.

There is an analogous attitude in Judaism regarding people running around talking about who Messiah is and when he is coming. Which happens every few hundred years or so, when false Messiahs come baout.

I believe it was attributed to the Vilna Gaon -- "Those who know when Messiah will come, know about it. Those who don't know, they scream about it."
At their core, I believe all great religions share a common understanding.. :tu:

[Duchifas]

psholtz wrote: At their core, I believe all great religions share a common understanding.. :tu:

That depends on how you define the words "great" and "religions" and "share" and "common." ;)

I kinda used to think that, until I started learning more about Christianity. At this point, I think that the only commonality between Judaism and Christianity is that one sprung from the other.

In any case, a more apt description would be "followers of all great religions share many common misunderstandings."

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: I kinda used to think that, until I started learning more about Christianity. At this point, I think that the only commonality between Judaism and Christianity is that one sprung from the other.
No, that's incorrect (and you know it!).. :wink:

Christianity sprung from the Egyptian Mysteries, borrowing heavily from Hellenism, Neoplatonism and the Greek Orphic Rites. Compare the biographies of Jesus and the (much earlier) Egyptian god Horus if you don't believe me. Or compare the Egyptian Ankh w/ the Latin Cross. Or compare that Jesus is the Sun (Amen-Ra), surrounded by House of Twelve Apostles (signs in the zodiac).. Judaism, on the other hand, is an offspring of (fire-worshipping) Persian Zoroastrianism.. (compare the Hebrew and Persian Aramaic languages/scripts). The Egyptian Mysteries do, of course, share a common ancestor w/ Persian Zoroastrianism in the form of Hinduism, going way, way, way in back (over 7,000 years ago), so ultimately yes there is an ancestral tree linking Christianity and Judaism..

But, the point is, Christianity and Judaism are more like "distant, second cousins" than they are "parent-child"..

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: In any case, a more apt description would be "followers of all great religions share many common misunderstandings."
Now that I totally agree w/! :lol:

[cap'n queasy]

Well, how do you like that, Duchifas. You're a Hindu. :lol:

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Well, how do you like that, Duchifas. You're a Hindu. :lol:
Not quite.

All major outer religions adopt forms and creeds that are suitable and appropriate to the time, place and instruction in which they are given. Of course, if you're a monotheistic, you must admit that there is only ONE G-D and that this ONE G-D has ruled in all times and at all times places, including ancient India (and even before that).

Just be careful not to confuse the mythology of a religion w/ the religion itself.

[Duchifas]

cap'n queasy wrote: Well, how do you like that, Duchifas. You're a Hindu. :lol:

Well, that explains my affection for Indian cuisine.

Although if gastronomical preferences are any indicator, I am unquestionably Japanese.

[Duchifas]

psholtz, I never quite got around to asking. Do you consider yourself Christian? Jewish? Atheist?

I most certainly cannot discern it from your views...at least the ones I've kept track of.

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: psholtz, I never quite got around to asking. Do you consider yourself Christian? Jewish? Atheist?

I most certainly cannot discern it from your views...at least the ones I've kept track of.
I regard myself as a humble student of Christianity, but there is wisdom and learning to be drawn from many different sources. The Neo-Platonists have a lot to offer, as does Shakespeare. The Jewish OT is full of wisdom as well.. The Six Days Work, Ezekiel, the Wisdom Literature (Book of Job, Ecclesiasties, Psalms, Proverbs, etc) are always a joy to read. But, like I've said before, we live in an era when Christianity is being de-constructed, and is in the process of being replaced w/ a new "outer form" better adapted to the needs of the present day. Christianity, as it's known and practiced the world over, has outlived its much of its purpose, and the Christian fundamentalists, in their ignorant zeal, wind up turning off and driving away those very Souls who would have the most to gain by a careful study and practice of the Teachings contained in the Christian NT.

Moreso than the Latin Cross, or the Jewish Star of David, the icon that I feel best sums up and symbolizes my religious convictions probably looks something like:



That answer your question? :-D

[Duchifas]

Ah....you believe in the Dollar god?