Political Crossfire Forums

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

I now challange all those who believe that Scotland would not now be wealth nation if we had gained our independance in the 1970's. But British Governments over the last 3 decades have lied to the Scottish people.

And here is proof

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/46818.shtml

Lord Hargreaves · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 7192 Location: Herefordshire

And the fact that Scotland is backrolled by English taxpayers means nothing to you? No wonder you're all socialists, since Scotland is buggered without socialist redistribution.

I do not wish Scotland to become independent because I consider myself British and not English, and I wish to see the United Kingdom retained. However aside from this essentially sentimental feeling on my part, I don't really care about what the Scottish do. If they wish to leave my belief in democracy overrides my belief in the Kingdom and I will support their right to become independent, but when Scotland suffers economically and England gains economically, you can't expect me to regret it.

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

You did read the bit that said Fiscal Chronic Surplus if Scotland had gained it's Freedom in the 70's we would now be in a similar postion as Norway.

Lord Hargreaves · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 7192 Location: Herefordshire

I'm pretty sure i'm right without this oil revenue, but with it - who knows - or perhaps the more relevant question - who cares?

It'll also be telling to see how many socialists conveniently forget their environmental concerns when there is a chance for more money :lol:

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

angusrae wrote: You did read the bit that said Fiscal Chronic Surplus if Scotland had gained it's Freedom in the 70's we would now be in a similar postion as Norway.

If you ignore the fact that we would have kept most of the oil.

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 7062

I'd happiliy see Scotland separate itself for England... except for one small thing; it would significantly reduce our influence in EU wrt the QMV.

Guest · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:00 am Post subject:

Ssushi wrote: I'd happiliy see Scotland separate itself for England... except for one small thing; it would significantly reduce our influence in EU wrt the QMV.

I support Scottish independence for the very same reason.

Achilles The Myrmidon · Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 4649 Location: Hellas

Lord Hargreaves wrote: And the fact that Scotland is backrolled by English taxpayers means nothing to you? No wonder you're all socialists, since Scotland is buggered without socialist redistribution.

I do not wish Scotland to become independent because I consider myself British and not English, and I wish to see the United Kingdom retained. However aside from this essentially sentimental feeling on my part, I don't really care about what the Scottish do. If they wish to leave my belief in democracy overrides my belief in the Kingdom and I will support their right to become independent, but when Scotland suffers economically and England gains economically, you can't expect me to regret it. Isn't Scotland full of oil?And what about sovereignty,Harqreaves?
:wink:

Britain is just an island.Not a nation...

The Redcoat · Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 411 Location: Hampshire, England

Achilles The Myrmidon wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: And the fact that Scotland is backrolled by English taxpayers means nothing to you? No wonder you're all socialists, since Scotland is buggered without socialist redistribution.

I do not wish Scotland to become independent because I consider myself British and not English, and I wish to see the United Kingdom retained. However aside from this essentially sentimental feeling on my part, I don't really care about what the Scottish do. If they wish to leave my belief in democracy overrides my belief in the Kingdom and I will support their right to become independent, but when Scotland suffers economically and England gains economically, you can't expect me to regret it. Isn't Scotland full of oil?And what about sovereignty,Harqreaves?
:wink:

Britain is just an island.Not a nation...

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Anyway, the Scottish didn't really want to be merged with the English back when the two kingdoms were united. If Scotland were to cecede, then it would be no big deal, except the Union Jack would look a bit outdated.

However, if I was Scottish aside from the sentimental values, I wouldn't want to cecede from the UK, I wouldn't have anything to gain, but possibly quite a bit to lose, just like the entire country.

antonio62 · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject:

Windy wrote: angusrae wrote: You did read the bit that said Fiscal Chronic Surplus if Scotland had gained it's Freedom in the 70's we would now be in a similar postion as Norway.

If you ignore the fact that we would have kept most of the oil.

Most of the north sea oil is off the Scottish coast. That’s why I want independence all those oil revenues spread between 5 million people works out as allot.

thundertaker · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject:

That oil is due to run out within the next 30 years http://www.i-sis.org.uk/OilRunningOut.php .

What then?

antonio62 · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject:

They said it would run out by 1980 in the 70s, then when it didn't it ran out it was going to by 1990 and then it didn't but I would think it would probably run out by then. I would take predictions like that with a pinch of salt though. Thirty years of oil money will still make us pretty rich though. By that time we will have had time to diversify our economy.

HarmonyOnTheRight · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:

Diversify the economy? Like how? How are you going to inspire the unworking masses in the central belt to work, not to expect the state handout to be a right but a fall-back? Scotland is fast becoming depopulated, meaning that you will be become more reliant on British monies rather than oil revenues.

And let's be honest oil is not a end in itself. Its pretty crap economic planning to say, oh oil money will be the saving grace for Scotland.

Those that slag off Thatcher for using the oil cash to cut taxes are plain bloody stupid. Those cuts in corporation rates and introduction of tax breaks for companies and industries to relocate to depressed areas, gave certain tracts of Scotland a real boost to employment.

The only thing to save Socialist Scotland is quite frankly the proliferation of the services industry in this current economic climate.

Snow Patrol · Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 2175 Location: Glasgow

HarmonyOnTheRight wrote: Diversify the economy? Like how? How are you going to inspire the unworking masses in the central belt to work, not to expect the state handout to be a right but a fall-back? Scotland is fast becoming depopulated, meaning that you will be become more reliant on British monies rather than oil revenues.
It takes a long time to diversify the labour market when industries that were so heavily relied upon for employment in the region practically disappear.

Please read this before you go on about "unworking masses" next time.

antonio62 · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:39 am Post subject:

HarmonyOnTheRight wrote: Diversify the economy? Like how? How are you going to inspire the unworking masses in the central belt to work, not to expect the state handout to be a right but a fall-back? Scotland is fast becoming depopulated, meaning that you will be become more reliant on British monies rather than oil revenues.

And let's be honest oil is not a end in itself. Its pretty crap economic planning to say, oh oil money will be the saving grace for Scotland.

Those that slag off Thatcher for using the oil cash to cut taxes are plain bloody stupid. Those cuts in corporation rates and introduction of tax breaks for companies and industries to relocate to depressed areas, gave certain tracts of Scotland a real boost to employment.

The only thing to save Socialist Scotland is quite frankly the proliferation of the services industry in this current economic climate.

We are becoming depopulated another reason for us to be independent we need a very different immigration policies to the rest of Britain.

thundertaker · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:

The scots won't become independent. They're having far too good a time running England......

antonio62 · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:13 am Post subject:

Actually without Scotland then Labour would not have had the majority to win.

thundertaker · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:

antonio62 wrote: Actually without Scotland then Labour would not have had the majority to win.

Only goes to prove my point.....

antonio62 · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:25 am Post subject:

Actually when I think about it I might have to revise my calculation. The number of seats to win would be lower after you take out 59 seats. It would certainly be allot closer if not no one winning.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

But Tony is practically scottish, and the no2 is Scottish. I suspect the entire cabinet has scottish connections! :lol: