Political Crossfire Forums

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Well, I don't know if this is a good thing or not. On one hand, I think it's good that kids can be openly gay without being fearful, but on the other hand, I am not sure that I like this overall trend of kids becoming sexually active at younger ages. :?

Quote: KIDS SPEND LESS TIME IN THE CLOSET

Kids in the United States are disclosing their homosexuality with unprecedented regularity -- they are doing so much younger -- and appearance of so many gay adolescents has worried social conservatives and surprised gay activists, a media report said on Monday.

Time magazine says in the 1960s, gay men recalled first desiring other males occurred at an average age of 14 and 17 for lesbians.

By the 1990s, the average had dropped to 10 for gays and 12 for lesbians, according to more than a dozen studies reviewed by Ritch Savin-Williams, author of The New Gay Teenager, who chairs Cornell's human-development department.

The book, Time says, quotes a Penn State study of 350 young people from 59 gay groups that found that the mean age at which lesbians first have sexual contact with other girls is 16; it's just 14 for gay boys.

The average gay person now comes out just before or after graduating high school, according to the book.

"Same-sex marriage -- that's out there. But something going on in a more fierce and insidious way, under the radar, is what's happening in our schools," Mathew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel, an influential conservative litigation group, was quoted as saying.

Earlier this year, the group had won a court order blocking a new Montgomery County teachers' guide that disparaged Evangelicals for their views on gays.

In 1997, there were approximately 100 gay-straight alliances -- clubs for gay and gay-friendly kids on US High school campuses. Today there are at least 3,000 GSAs -- nearly 1 in 10 high schools has one, the magazine quoted the Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network (GLSEN) a saying.

In the 2004-05 academic year, GSAs were established at US schools at the rate of three per day, it added.

One of the few national groups conceived explicitly to help gay kids, the report says, is the Point Foundation.

Launched in 2001, Point gives lavish (often full-ride) scholarships to gay students. It is a leading example of how the gay movements responding to the emergence this decade of hundreds of thousands of openly gay youths, Time said, adding Point candidates must prove both academic success and commitment to gay causes.

From young ages, Time says, straight kids are growing up with more openly bisexual, gay and sexually uncertain classmates.

On talk radio, on the Internet and in churches, social conservatives' canniest strategy for combating the emergence of gay youth is to highlight the existence of people who battle -- and, some claim, overcome -- their homosexual attractions, Time says.

As recently as the late 1990s, Exodus International, the premier organization for Christians battling same-sex attractions, had no youth programme, the magazine says and quotes President of the group Alan Chambers as saying that now spends a quarter of its one million dollars budget on Exodus Youth; about 80 of Exodus' 125 North American ministries offer help to adolescents.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/28887.htm

[F'losrix]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Well, I don't know if this is a good thing or not. On one hand, I think it's good that kids can be openly gay without being fearful, but on the other hand, I am not sure that I like this overall trend of kids becoming sexually active at younger ages. :?
While I'm inclined to agree, I think its important that parents, educators and the like address these issues without playing the 'blame game'. (I'm so sick of that phrase, but can't come up with a better one.)

Arch-conservatives would apparently like to put the blame on the publicity surrounding the debate over marriage, the existance of gay-positive literature and support groups for gay/lesbian youth. I know it's cliché, but they're acting more like part of the problem than the solution.

Gay youth are especially vulnerable because of the lack of role models. Many gay adults shy away from the role of mentoring because they don't want to get caught up in any sort of controversy or be accused of 'recruiting'. So gay youth have to try to fit the pervasive & confusing messages about heterosexual sexuality to their own - and it's often a poor fit.

I can't help but feel that in the struggle by adults for their own sexual freedom, we've left gay youth behind. We're so busy trying to counter the message from the far right of 'all gay sex is evil' that we've lost sight of the fact that gay youth struggling to shape their identity, who haven't yet developed the maturity to deal with matters of actual sexual experience, need to hear a different message - one that affirms who they are without encouraging them to manifest it through premature sexual experimentation.

[Dragoon]

I have several openly gay or bisexual friends. We're all within the same age range (15-17). I'm fine with them and I'm happy that they can actually try to cope with everything and enjoy life.

It's a shame that there are some people who tell young men and women that what they feel is unnatural and wrong. It's a travesty.

[Politically_Correct]

It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick. Gay is happy. Sodomy is sick.

[Dragoon]

Politically_Correct wrote: It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick. Gay is happy. Sodomy is sick.

And this, my friends, is what we must fight against. Intolerance and hatred from people who would like to impose their morality on the rest of the nation, regardless of an individual's rights. People like this would love to see homosexuals forced back into their closets.

Anyway...In an actual arguement to your post: Whose morals are we discussing? Certainly not mine or my friends' morals. Homosexuality is perfectly acceptable and should not be looked down upon. It is not sick. And technically, yes, gay does mean happy. However, it has also come to mean someone who is homosexual, so that is how it is used these days.

I would like to ask you: what would do with homosexuals? Deport them? Try and "re-educate" them? Kill them?

[Trajan]

Dragoon wrote: Politically_Correct wrote: It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick. Gay is happy. Sodomy is sick.

And this, my friends, is what we must fight against. Intolerance and hatred from people who would like to impose their morality on the rest of the nation, regardless of an individual's rights. People like this would love to see homosexuals forced back into their closets.

Anyway...In an actual arguement to your post: Whose morals are we discussing? Certainly not mine or my friends' morals. Homosexuality is perfectly acceptable and should not be looked down upon. It is not sick. And technically, yes, gay does mean happy. However, it has also come to mean someone who is homosexual, so that is how it is used these days.

I would like to ask you: what would do with homosexuals? Deport them? Try and "re-educate" them? Kill them?

They have done that in Saudi. http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1548630.php

[Trajan]

Politically_Correct wrote: It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick.

Yes bigotry et al is.

[Wolverine]

Politically_Correct wrote: It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick. Gay is happy. Sodomy is sick.
Let people marry whom ever they want, its none of my business, neither is it yours.
We are not running a theocracy, so people want to be "immoral", it is no ones business but theirs.

[John]

ProGunAmerican wrote: Politically_Correct wrote: It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick. Gay is happy. Sodomy is sick.
Let people marry whom ever they want, its none of my business, neither is it yours.
We are not running a theocracy, so people want to be "immoral", it is no ones business but theirs.

Marry? The article is talking about 10 year old boys. If you don't see anything wrong with that...I really don't know what to say.


Heck. It says the average is 10 years old...so what are we talking about here? 7 year olds?

You need to wake up and smell the K-Y.

[Wolverine]

I didn't mean 10 year olds should marry, I was just making a general statemrnt towards the member I quoted.

[Sailor Moon]

I think that 15 is a bit young to even establish sexuality.

Just because you are attracted by people of the same sex doesnt ean youre gay or Bi, it just means youre attracted.

I dont support gay marriage, although I have said so in the past. Its not natural, and not seen by many religions as being a moral or proper thing to do. Gay marriage is rebuked by the Bible itself.

Its natural to be attracted to people of the same sex. Im straight and I have always been fascinated with the female form. Women are beautiful. I love to look at women! Heck, it even turns me on! But that doesnt mean that sex with a woman is even a remote possibility.

I tried it once with a female friend, and it was just as uncomfortabe as sex with a male friend I also had.

Gay is a lifestyle, but its not a sexual preferance. Hopefully its a fad, and people will see it as such.

[StrangerWitCandy]

Sailor Moon wrote: I think that 15 is a bit young to even establish sexuality.

Just because you are attracted by people of the same sex doesnt ean youre gay or Bi, it just means youre attracted.

I dont support gay marriage, although I have said so in the past. Its not natural, and not seen by many religions as being a moral or proper thing to do. Gay marriage is rebuked by the Bible itself.

Its natural to be attracted to people of the same sex. Im straight and I have always been fascinated with the female form. Women are beautiful. I love to look at women! Heck, it even turns me on! But that doesnt mean that sex with a woman is even a remote possibility.

I tried it once with a female friend, and it was just as uncomfortabe as sex with a male friend I also had.

Gay is a lifestyle, but its not a sexual preferance. Hopefully its a fad, and people will see it as such.

no offense but from this post it seems you really don't understand homosexuality at all. sexuality isn't a fad. pick up a history book, its been around as long as we have. and most people don't pick their romantic relationships based on fads. if someone comes to terms with their sexuality at a young age then so be it. they would know better than anyone else what it is they are. i realized i was gay long before i finally accepted it. people often realize their attractions at a fairly early age. if others can come to terms with it at a young age, then good for them. if i could have, it might have spared me a lot of painful times

[Enoch]

Sailor Moon wrote: I think that 15 is a bit young to even establish sexuality.

Just because you are attracted by people of the same sex doesnt ean youre gay or Bi, it just means youre attracted.

I dont support gay marriage, although I have said so in the past. Its not natural, and not seen by many religions as being a moral or proper thing to do. Gay marriage is rebuked by the Bible itself.

Its natural to be attracted to people of the same sex. Im straight and I have always been fascinated with the female form. Women are beautiful. I love to look at women! Heck, it even turns me on! But that doesnt mean that sex with a woman is even a remote possibility.

I tried it once with a female friend, and it was just as uncomfortabe as sex with a male friend I also had.

Gay is a lifestyle, but its not a sexual preferance. Hopefully its a fad, and people will see it as such.

So, which conservative talking points memo did you get that from? Because, it is spoken like someone with a true misunderstanding of homosexuality.

How is gay a lifestyle? I have said it before, and I will say it again, being gay is NOT a lifestyle. Lifestyles are defined by the consumption, dress, and entertainment choices of a particular group. I eat the same foods as most people, dress in the same manner as most people, and enjoy the same types of entertainment as most people. I don't see anything in my day to day routines that seperates me from most other people.

Oh, and if homosexuality is a fad....it is a long running fad. One that will continue through the rest of human existence. (Barring some discovery and "cure" of a gay gene....which evidence suggests, but does not yet proove, exists).

[Demonic Spoon]

Oh please. I had my first crush when I was around 6, but did not start thinking below the belt til 11 or 12. You do not need to be sexual in order to realize your orientation. I could have determined whether I was gay or straight then by determining the gender of my crush.






Wow. just saw Sailor's post. Lets break it down...


Quote: Just because you are attracted by people of the same sex doesnt ean youre gay or Bi, it just means youre attracted.







...yes it does. If you are consistantly attracted to members of the same sex, then you are gay.



Quote: I dont support gay marriage, although I have said so in the past. Its not natural, and not seen by many religions as being a moral or proper thing to do. Gay marriage is rebuked by the Bible itself.

I sure as hell hope you don't want to make it ILLEGAL for these reasons


Quote: Its natural to be attracted to people of the same sex. Im straight and I have always been fascinated with the female form. Women are beautiful. I love to look at women! Heck, it even turns me on! But that doesnt mean that sex with a woman is even a remote possibility.



No one's sexuality is 100%. All that means is that the small part of you that is lesbian was showing itself in your thoughts





Quote: I tried it once with a female friend, and it was just as uncomfortabe as sex with a male friend I also had.


If sex is uncomfortable with BOTH sexes, I think it's because you were doing it with just friends instead of a boyfriend. I can see how sex with a friend could be somewhat uncomfortable


Quote: Gay is a lifestyle, but its not a sexual preferance. Hopefully its a fad, and people will see it as such.

A lifestyle? A lifestyle is chosen. When did you CHOOSE that you wanted to be straight? You didn't. Attractions to others are the result of chemicals in your brain. People who's sexual orientation is more homosexual have more of an imbalance compared to people who only very slightly homosexual.

[Praetorian]

Politically_Correct wrote: It's unacceptable and morally wrong. It's sick. Gay is happy. Sodomy is sick.

...
So lesbians are okay then, under that rule. Since they don't have to partake in sodomy...

Morally wrong? Who's morals are we talking about?

[ToonArmyIsComing]

The fact of the matter is people are having sex at younger and younger ages nowadays, so maybe we should stop sweeping this under the rug.

[Wolverine]

Sailor Moon wrote: I think that 15 is a bit young to even establish sexuality.

Just because you are attracted by people of the same sex doesnt ean youre gay or Bi, it just means youre attracted.

I dont support gay marriage, although I have said so in the past. Its not natural, and not seen by many religions as being a moral or proper thing to do. Gay marriage is rebuked by the Bible itself.

Its natural to be attracted to people of the same sex. Im straight and I have always been fascinated with the female form. Women are beautiful. I love to look at women! Heck, it even turns me on! But that doesnt mean that sex with a woman is even a remote possibility.

I tried it once with a female friend, and it was just as uncomfortabe as sex with a male friend I also had.

Gay is a lifestyle, but its not a sexual preferance. Hopefully its a fad, and people will see it as such.
But we are not running a theoracy, so whether or not the Bible says its okay is irrelavent.

[butterscotch.n.toffee]

as i go to school each day
it seems everyone is gay/bi/lesbian
i am in high school
and i believe that this is too young of an age
to establish his/her sexual orientation..

so do they choose well actually just say they are gay/bi/lesbian just to get attention? or are they actually sure that they are..? i'll admit there are a few who truly are, but what about those who aren't?
what is their reasoning? :?

[butterscotch.n.toffee]

please get back to me on that

[eXploiTeD]

So what if 12 year olds are f***ing? I mean, didn't Jewish boys used to get married at 13 (and thus have to consumate the marriage)? It's nothing "new."