Political Crossfire Forums

[marxistrevolutionary]

the united states needs to quit pretending that China is not a international market competitor, so far the united states inaction on the situations in china is unacceptable, chinese citizens are about to experiance a change in there entire consumer culture, china is on th everge of a shift from producers to consumers, the chinese are about to suddenly start ddemanding for massive amounts of oil. the united states only has 2 options now, 1) recognize the chinese power and seek to work together as equeal partners in trade or 2) total economic war, the whole shebang like embargos and all that jazz, unfortunately the united states would eventually lose that economic war because the chinese have a larger population an dcould most definetly out produce the untied states if they ever really get into full swing. regardless of which choice they make the united states needs to have at least some action.[/b]

[Freemason]

And when they do go consumer guess who sells them their cell phone service...

Me Baby, Me.

The US will make just as much money off them as they made off us.

[Chow440104]

China gets their oil from Russia and East Asia, U.S. gets their oil from Venezuela, Gulf Coast, and the Middle East.

Neither side is going to compete with each other for decades.

[Demothenes]

Debatable. China is already an economic power as a production country, but the shift to consumption? What makes you think this? Just curious. The Chinse economy is s**t, they really can't do much in the way of mass consumption. They barely have enough to keep their masses decently fed (This thread isn't about their policy, so I won't go into detail).

I can't really see where you're coming from. A link, maybe?

[Bolshevik]

China is growing because of its superior government. Communism at its finest. A theory that the USSC has been thinking a possibility: China invites private businesses into the country, which then build factories, labs, and help further the technology in China. Then, BAM! China closes its doors, siezes the newly created factories, labs, and other private owned properties. They then use these to create guidance chips and fuselages for ICBM's. All because it's a communist country...

[Demothenes]

Again, you're overestimating the capacity of the Chinese economy. It's very possible that they could perform part of your plan, but it would be a nightmare for them internationally. Do not think that China is immune to repurcussion just because they are Communist. The world on the whole still dislikes Communism, keep in mind, so the global reaction to that would be massive compared to other similar circumstances.

[Bolshevik]

It's not a poor economy, though. Within about 10 years, the yen is supposed to be worth more than the US dollar. China can wait 10 years if it means taking back Hong Kong.

[CSA Davis]

Your ideas about China WOULD be a bit believable if China didn't ALREADY have our weak-kneed government in their pockets. Ever since Clinton, it's been obvious, at least to me, that China at the very least holds the president by the leash. Why else would the media have completely overblown Clinton's sexual relations with Lewinsky? Extra-marital sexual activity is perfectly acceptable among aged Southern gentleman such as Clinton and myself, especially in a work environment.

No, the real reason that episode recieved such attention is because the liberal media (at its finest here) diverted the national view away from the regular payments of Chinese funds into Clinton's bank accounts.

Think about it, the Chinese started their rise to power during Clinton's administration. Add it up. With our president in their pocket, they could get away with anything. Look at Tianenmen.

[marxistrevolutionary]

right then first of all extra marital sex isn't ok regardless and the media isn't liberal. but onto the topic, china may not get it's oil from the nations we get our oil from, (although might i add i believe 25% of our oil ocmes from venezuala) but a large number of chinese ride bicycles but when china as every other nation that has become a superpower switches to a consumer economy, which almost every 1st world power has eventually become. then a switch will be made to a much larger use of automobiles, at leas tthis is more than likely and then chinas oil needs will skyrocket, may i also add that china never signed the kyoto pact.

[Chow440104]

Bolshevik wrote: China is growing because of its superior government.
The Chinese government's health care reform plans had been declared a failure. Health care reform became "half-cooked rice". Experts talk about three main causes

CSA Davis wrote: Think about it, the Chinese started their rise to power during Clinton's administration.
China's rise to power was due to Deng Xiao Ping's economic reforms. It so happens that Clinton was president when the reforms start to take effect.

marxistrevolutionary wrote: but a large number of Chinese ride bicycles
That's a stereotype. Many urban Chinese now drives whenever they can. Beijing's traffic congestion major challenge to Olyumpics, IOC says

[marxistrevolutionary]

the point iwas trying to make was that U.S. citizens still drive more than chinesse citizens

[Chow440104]

Like I said before, though China is gradually converting to a consumer economy, the process takes a long time, and it will take decades before the US feels any of its impact. By that time, the US could have found alternative fuel sources and there won't be a competition.

[Showboat]

Quote: Within about 10 years, the yen is supposed to be worth more than the US dollar. China can wait 10 years if it means taking back Hong Kong.

Just to be a pedant... The Yen is Japanese and the Chinese got Hong Kong back in 1997.

[Demothenes]

Showboat wrote: Quote: Within about 10 years, the yen is supposed to be worth more than the US dollar. China can wait 10 years if it means taking back Hong Kong.

Just to be a pedant... The Yen is Japanese and the Chinese got Hong Kong back in 1997. Yeah, but don't hold that against him, he's lying anyway!!

[tictactactical]

China's economy certainly is growing, and at an alarming rate; But alarming of what? Certainly, Chinese competition will, and is, hurting some US business ( like my factory ), but there exist problems in China that, in time, will take it's toll. For instance, how long do you think a Communist govt. can continue its venture into a psuedo-capitalist economy before something gives. And, at the staggering rate of which the Chinese economy is growing, it certainly isn't building any stability. Add to that the censoring of the Chinese Internet, and things are ripe for, maybe not a crumble, but most certainly a stumble.
Bolshevik, even if your scenario proves to be correct: the confiscation of production; it will prove to be China's undoing.

[alex.rj.martin]

China and America could make an impressive economy coalition. China, with it's superior population and abilities for labour production and America with it's capabilities for capital intensive production could use trade to increase global production.
If anyone knows the ideas of Ricardo's "Theory of Comparative Advantage", you will know what i mean. Basically, if China was to specialise in consumer goods and America was to specialise in capital goods, then trade off what the other needs, it can be shown that specialisation in these industries will result in greater efficiency, quality of production and lower prices globally. America needs to wake up and realise the power of China as an economy. :bang: If America does form economic ties with China, we can also expect to see closer political ties which, hey, could maybe calm things down a bit in the trans-pacific economies. :think:

[marxistrevolutionary]

thak you alex for getting the message i was trying to get across to everyone. (not that i don't value everyone elses input believe me i love the fact that we are discussing this)

[superskippy]

China is growing because of its superior government. Communism at its finest.

Hate to break it to you but... China is most definatly not a Communist Paradise lol. They are extremely capitolist when it comes to economic policy and are even in the WTO the most Capitolist organization on the planet. China is more Authoriterian than anything else.

Also on a side note I think that China will become a complete democracy in a decade or two, you cannot have such immense ammounts of economic and political reform without having civil and social reform as well tey are mutual. Democracy will come to China, its the basic principle of all people, first people want food and shelter and a steady life, then they begin to look up, they will want more and one way or another they will get it.

[alex.rj.martin]

superskippy wrote: China is growing because of its superior government. Communism at its finest.

Hate to break it to you but... China is most definatly not a Communist Paradise lol. They are extremely capitolist when it comes to economic policy and are even in the WTO the most Capitolist organization on the planet. China is more Authoriterian than anything else.

Also on a side note I think that China will become a complete democracy in a decade or two, you cannot have such immense ammounts of economic and political reform without having civil and social reform as well tey are mutual. Democracy will come to China, its the basic principle of all people, first people want food and shelter and a steady life, then they begin to look up, they will want more and one way or another they will get it.

Quite right. China is now in a phase of privatisation. that is why China's economy is growing. It's realisation of the values of competition when controlled by elements of government intervention has left China privatizing many of the public sectors. China, I think is in to be an example to the world of an ideal economy and social structure.
I have visited China and it is a wonderful nation that has a huge future ahead of it in the economic world. But without large economies like America realising this, China's potential may be wasted.

[superskippy]

Could not agree with you more, instead of trying to alienate china and make China a rival America should be more realized in it's relations. In return I think China should make greater efforts to satisfy some of the worlds demand for reform.

I know that the Americans were starting to get angry at our military trade policy with China, and I think I tend to agree. Weapons should not be part of the relations building, strong economic and political ties are the key.

Most of all people need to get it out of their heads that China is a communist monolith, it most definatly is not.

On a latter side note, China still does have some hugh internal issues with the more rural areas of China over 200 million Farmers I beleive that conflict directly with government interest which to be solved requires social reform on a more open capitolist democratic level.