Political Crossfire Forums

[johndri]

I have to admit, I find Chavez's repeated victories over the elitists in Venezuela quite invigorating. I hope the recall election goes forward, and that he is able to once again defeat their plans.

Here's an article from the Washington Post:
Quote: Ready for a Recall Vote

By Hugo Chavez
Wednesday, May 26, 2004; Page A27


CARACAS, Venezuela -- For the first 24 hours of the coup d'etat that briefly overthrew my government on April 11, 2002, I expected to be executed at any moment.




The coup leaders told Venezuela and the world that I hadn't been overthrown but rather had resigned. I expected that my captors would soon shoot me in the head and call it a suicide.

Instead, something extraordinary happened. The truth about the coup got out, and millions of Venezuelans took to the streets. Their protests emboldened the pro-democracy forces in the military to put down the brief dictatorship, led by Venezuelan business leader Pedro Carmona.

The truth saved my life, and with it Venezuela's democracy. This near-death experience changed me. I wish I could say it changed my country.

The political divisions in Venezuela didn't start with my election in 1998. My country has been socially and economically divided throughout its history. Venezuela is one of the largest oil exporting countries in the world -- the fourth-largest supplier to the United States -- and yet the majority of Venezuelans remain mired in poverty.

What has enraged my opponents, most of whom are from the upper classes, is not Venezuela's persistent misery and inequality but rather my efforts to dedicate a portion of our oil wealth to improving the lives of the poor. In the past six years we have doubled spending on health care and tripled the education budget. Infant mortality has fallen; life expectancy and literacy have increased.

Having failed to force me from office through the 2002 coup, my opponents shut down the government oil company last year. Now they are trying to collect enough signatures to force a recall referendum on my presidency. Venezuela's constitution -- redrafted and approved by a majority of voters in 1999 -- is the only constitution in the Western Hemisphere that allows for a president to be recalled.

Venezuela's National Electoral Council -- a body as independent as the Federal Election Commission in the United States -- found that more than 375,000 recall petition signatures were faked and that an additional 800,000 had similar handwriting. Having been elected president twice by large majorities in less than six years, I find it more than a little ironic to be accused of behaving undemocratically by many of the same people who were involved in the illegal overthrow of my government.

The National Electoral Council has invited representatives of the Organization of American States and the Carter Center to observe a signature verification process that will be conducted during the last four days of this month. That process will determine whether the opposition has gathered enough valid signatures to trigger a recall election, which would be held this August. To be frank, I hope that my opponents have gathered enough signatures to trigger a referendum, because I relish the opportunity to once again win the people's mandate.

But it is not up to me. To underscore my commitment to the rule of law, my supporters and I have publicly and repeatedly pledged to abide by the results of that transparent process, whatever they may be. My political opponents have not made a similar commitment; some have even said they will accept only a ruling in favor of a recall vote.

The Bush administration was alone in the world when it endorsed the overthrow of my government in 2002. It is my hope that this time the Bush administration will respect our republican democracy. We are counting on the international community -- and all Venezuelans -- to make a clear and firm commitment to respect and support the outcome of the signature verification process, no matter the result.

The writer is president of Venezuela.


© 2004 The Washington Post Company

[mitsi_mirage]

Hugo Chavez is a big time theif!! He manipulates the ballots, kills people.. and I have no idea on what you are talking about Chaves using cocain. I don't doubt it either.. I wish he would go down like Saddam did. He wants beef against the United States, he has been in power for over 40 years. The people from Venezuela want him out... but yet; the votes seem to go in his favor.

I PROTEST HUGO CHAVEZ IS A MURDER AND A THIEF!!!!

[Demothenes]

mitsi_mirage wrote: I PROTEST HUGO CHAVEZ IS A MURDER AND A THIEF!!!!

That's pretty much the case . . . :think:

[johndri]

baseless accusations, from both of you.

[mitsi_mirage]

johndri wrote: baseless accusations, from both of you.

Baseless accusations from the both of us?? Oh you went there!!!!

I'll tell you what. For some reason.. Hugo Chavez has been in power for over 40 years? The entire community want a new leader.. umm.. don't you think he should be gone.. out? I think something's kinda wrong here. I'm going to start doing my research on him.. and I will prove to you he is a damm thief!!

[DEFCON 1]

But you are missing the point here, Mitsi. This was suppose to be a subtle bash Bush post.

[johndri]

Hugo Chavez was lawfully elected to his office just a few years ago. His single-term presidency will end in 2006. I look forward to your learned reply (after you've done your research);
Mitsi.

DeafCon, if I wanted to bash your pinhead pResident (not mine);
I would have no qualms about being forthright. But since you brought it up...there is ample evidence that Bush supporters here are funding the anti-Chavez activities in Venezuela. The Bushies openly supported the attempted coup back in 02. It's also no surprise, given the involvement of the Bushies, that there are vast oil reserves in Venezuela. Since they already control Iraq and Libya, having Venezuela under thumb would give the Bushies three votes at OPEC meetings.

Bush's interference in Venezuela's internal affairs would also explain why Mitzi would think so ill of Chavez, without having read very much about the situation, given the manner in which he has been vilified by the GOP-controlled cable news channels.

[mitsi_mirage]

Sorry.. I don't know how long Chavez has been elected. I was thinking about Castro.. who's been elected for that long. But still.. Chavez is a crook.. lying thieft! You can't deny me that he's not because my parents lived it themselves.

The problem with Hugo Chavez has to do with my family from South America. I'd suggest you don't assume anything before you can at least ask me why I say Chavez is a thieft.

[cap'n queasy]

Being a thief is a prerequisite of being a politician.

[johndri]

Quote: I'd suggest you don't assume anything before you can at least ask me why I say Chavez is a thieft.

I thought I was already waiting on you to answer that question. Just the same, I'll bite--why, specifically, do you say Chavez is a thief?

[mitsi_mirage]

He steals military weopons and he sells them to guerillas. Since you are a Chavez fanatic, then you must know what I'm talking about.

[johndri]

uhhhh....no. Maybe you're confusing Chavez with Iran/Contra?

[fredvin]

johndri wrote: baseless accusations, from both of you.

Baseless accusations? You are either part of his communist party of very ignorant.

It makes me laugh when people like you try to portrait a person like this evil guy as a Saint.

He is Pro Castro, He supplies guns, money and a safe heaven to the colombian guerrilla to destabilize the region and there are proof that him and his cabinet have squandered billions of Venezuelan money.

So don't come and preach for this verming because you don't know anything about what is going on in Venezuela

[johndri]

Quote: He is Pro Castro, He supplies guns, money and a safe heaven to the colombian guerrilla to destabilize the region and there are proof that him and his cabinet have squandered billions of Venezuelan money.


You got some kind of link to back all this up? Especially the part about the Columbian guerillas. I don't care about Castro, and, well, every government squanders money.

[fredvin]

Yes I do, so does the Colombian Goverment, the US Goverment and the Venezuelan oposition.

You have to be Venezuelan or live there to understand what is going on there. Did you know that HCF (Hugo) paid $4 millions to a French lawyer to try to get The Jackal ( an old venezuelan terrorist) free? or that HCF used to drive around in a Mercedes Limo with Saddam in the iraqui dessert? or that his entourage are Cuban Secret Service?

Wake up, a communist country is in the cooking down south...

Here, read and research before you look like an idiot talking about what you don't know http://www.vcrisis.com/

[Kieran]

fredvin wrote: Wake up, a communist country is in the cooking down south...

This typifies to me the attitude of the Bush generation, acting like international bullies and believing they have a divine right to interfere with another country whenever they feel it may be threatening their hegemony. Don't you think that for once a country outside the Western world should be allowed to decide for itself? If they are lawful elections what right do you have to tell them they are wrong? Do you think they really want any more 'benevolent' American intervention? Doesn't it just seem that the US intervenes for its own selfish good, rather than for the good of the people it is supposedly helping?

[social]

Indeed the idea that a proper communist state can even exist in a capitalist world is humorous to say the least. The so-called "communism" of the Soviet Union after the mid ninteen twenties was nothing like that which Karl Marx, in the Communist Manifesto, described. ‘The evils of communism’ usually spouted by someone like our friend Fred Vin, remains, in this way, a trivial and meaningless anecdote attributed by the right - to the left - in a vain and reckless effort to try and discredit the ideals and principles of Karl Marx, the creator of communism.

One can only assume the person who promotes the evils of communism myth is one who believes every communist state is, in actuality, communist. (And every socialist state is in fact a socialist society). That belief is quite a funny one because a certain well-known man called Adolf Hitler was chairman of a little-known party called the National Socialists. As you can see Vin: not every politcal party is a party which wholeheartedly represents its initial doctrine. On the contray, parties usually (and certainly in the case of communism) use fundamental principles of certain ideological teachings to acquire power and, in the advent of attaining power, completely disreagard such principles. It's a very common trend.

Good post anomie

[S.O.G.]

I think Hugo Chavez writes quite well.

I am inclined to believe him. He is giving his opponents all the protection and freedom to act.

For me it would not be chocking if in Venezuela or some other South American country the president who has some popular support decided to imprison and execute the leaders of his opposition. Why is Chavez not doing this? because he is a kind man I suppose... or perhaps he is only doing what is legal and correct.

I think Chavez is a good leader for Venezuela and people should calm down over there. Chavez has strength to negotiate for high oil prices and that is very much for the benefit of all Venezuelans.

[Silvio Dante]

Demothenese wrote: mitsi_mirage wrote: I PROTEST HUGO CHAVEZ IS A MURDER AND A THIEF!!!!

That's pretty much the case . . . :think:
And our proof for this is...????

[mitsi_mirage]

http://www.vcrisis.com/