Political Crossfire Forums

F'losrix · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:39 am Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: It's confusing because people's actual behavior doesn't necessarily reflect their true sexual orientation.

This is true. Homosexual behavior doesn't reflect one's natural sexual orientation, instead natural instinct is over-ridden somehow by the desire to participate in deviant sexual behavior.
A statement which implies that it's a matter of conscious 'choice' and that homosexuals are worthy of blame for making this 'choice' and are therefore undeserving of basic respect and common courtesy.

That you would make such a statement leads me to the conclusion that you are mean-spirited and not a very nice person.

We can argue all day over whether differences in sexual orientation are 'natural', but that's not really the issue.

Nice distortion of my statement. I used to have some respect for you, cap'n, but it's pretty well gone at this point.

Gryff1nd0r · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 2430 Location: Cambridge, MA

You guys don't have to feel bad for the kids... I would say she is a great mother and does a great job with her partner. They do better job than a lot of straight couples or single parents. I was just amazed that someone could go that long in a marraige without being sure about thier gayness... or if they were sure, being able to deal with that. It shows that being gay is definitly a choice... even if gay feelings are not.

SavannahMan · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 1307

thegriffinator13 wrote: I know a woman who was perfectly straight and married with 4 children, who around the age of 35, divorced her husband and moved in with a woman. She now identifies herself as a lesbian.

I am wondering if this is common... I have heard that it is. WHY? I mean, if you are really unattracted to men, how do you have 4 kids with a man before realizing that you don't like men? Could she be bisexual and just got sick of hubby because he was an ***hole, or maybe she is not REALLY gay she just got sick of hubby and decided that the reason was that she likes women. I think that's kind of weird and disturbing... how would that make you feel if you were the man? "Yeah, my wife left me for a WOMAN. Why, was I not man enough for her?"

I think he should take her to court and get his kids back.

Gryff1nd0r · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 2430 Location: Cambridge, MA

well he doesnt really care too much about the kids, thats one of the reasons she left. he doesnt care.

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

Skeptical Mystic wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: It's confusing because people's actual behavior doesn't necessarily reflect their true sexual orientation.

This is true. Homosexual behavior doesn't reflect one's natural sexual orientation, instead natural instinct is over-ridden somehow by the desire to participate in deviant sexual behavior.
A statement which implies that it's a matter of conscious 'choice' and that homosexuals are worthy of blame for making this 'choice' and are therefore undeserving of basic respect and common courtesy.

That you would make such a statement leads me to the conclusion that you are mean-spirited and not a very nice person.

We can argue all day over whether differences in sexual orientation are 'natural', but that's not really the issue.

Nice distortion of my statement. I used to have some respect for you, cap'n, but it's pretty well gone at this point.

Mean spirited has nothing to do with it.
Homosexuality is a choice.
You choose on some level to deviate.
Heterosexuality isn't, thats the way we are all born.
You and yours choose to be gay.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:30 am Post subject:

mwm1331 wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: It's confusing because people's actual behavior doesn't necessarily reflect their true sexual orientation.

This is true. Homosexual behavior doesn't reflect one's natural sexual orientation, instead natural instinct is over-ridden somehow by the desire to participate in deviant sexual behavior.
A statement which implies that it's a matter of conscious 'choice' and that homosexuals are worthy of blame for making this 'choice' and are therefore undeserving of basic respect and common courtesy.

That you would make such a statement leads me to the conclusion that you are mean-spirited and not a very nice person.

We can argue all day over whether differences in sexual orientation are 'natural', but that's not really the issue.

Nice distortion of my statement. I used to have some respect for you, cap'n, but it's pretty well gone at this point.

Mean spirited has nothing to do with it.
Homosexuality is a choice.
You choose on some level to deviate.
Heterosexuality isn't, thats the way we are all born.
You and yours choose to be gay.
Prove it. If it's a choice, then so is heterosexuality.

When did you choose to become a heterosexual. Surely you must remember such an important decision.

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

Skeptical Mystic wrote: mwm1331 wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: It's confusing because people's actual behavior doesn't necessarily reflect their true sexual orientation.

This is true. Homosexual behavior doesn't reflect one's natural sexual orientation, instead natural instinct is over-ridden somehow by the desire to participate in deviant sexual behavior.
A statement which implies that it's a matter of conscious 'choice' and that homosexuals are worthy of blame for making this 'choice' and are therefore undeserving of basic respect and common courtesy.

That you would make such a statement leads me to the conclusion that you are mean-spirited and not a very nice person.

We can argue all day over whether differences in sexual orientation are 'natural', but that's not really the issue.

Nice distortion of my statement. I used to have some respect for you, cap'n, but it's pretty well gone at this point.

Mean spirited has nothing to do with it.
Homosexuality is a choice.
You choose on some level to deviate.
Heterosexuality isn't, thats the way we are all born.
You and yours choose to be gay.
Prove it. If it's a choice, then so is heterosexuality.

When did you choose to become a heterosexual. Surely you must remember such an important decision.

I was born an american, I didn't have to choose. However should I wish to become french, I would have to choose to do so.

We are all born heterosexual, some choose not to stay heterosexual.
You chose to live your lifetstyle, I chose to stay who I was born.

milo1047 · Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1141

mwm1331 wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: mwm1331 wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: It's confusing because people's actual behavior doesn't necessarily reflect their true sexual orientation.

This is true. Homosexual behavior doesn't reflect one's natural sexual orientation, instead natural instinct is over-ridden somehow by the desire to participate in deviant sexual behavior.
A statement which implies that it's a matter of conscious 'choice' and that homosexuals are worthy of blame for making this 'choice' and are therefore undeserving of basic respect and common courtesy.

That you would make such a statement leads me to the conclusion that you are mean-spirited and not a very nice person.

We can argue all day over whether differences in sexual orientation are 'natural', but that's not really the issue.

Nice distortion of my statement. I used to have some respect for you, cap'n, but it's pretty well gone at this point.

Mean spirited has nothing to do with it.
Homosexuality is a choice.
You choose on some level to deviate.
Heterosexuality isn't, thats the way we are all born.
You and yours choose to be gay.
Prove it. If it's a choice, then so is heterosexuality.

When did you choose to become a heterosexual. Surely you must remember such an important decision.

I was born an american, I didn't have to choose. However should I wish to become french, I would have to choose to do so.

We are all born heterosexual, some choose not to stay heterosexual.
You chose to live your lifetstyle, I chose to stay who I was born.

Why would anyone choose to be gay? To be hated and looked down upon simply because you like girls instead of boys or boys instead of girls? To be seen as "unnatural" and disgusting, to be reviled simply beacause of the way you are? I didn't choose to like boys, I didn't choose to be this way. I just am.

You are so arrogant, assuming that anyone would choose this. People agonize over thsi kind of thing, they fight it and they pray and they struggle not to be this way. If it was a choice, there wouldn't be that kind of anguish. If there was a choice, I would be as straight a god damn arrow. But I'm not, because there isn't a choice. Get that through your skull! There is NOT a choice for us.

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

Quote: Why would anyone choose to be gay? To be hated and looked down upon simply because you like girls instead of boys or boys instead of girls? To be seen as "unnatural" and disgusting, to be reviled simply beacause of the way you are? I didn't choose to like boys, I didn't choose to be this way. I just am.

You are so arrogant, assuming that anyone would choose this. People agonize over thsi kind of thing, they fight it and they pray and they struggle not to be this way. If it was a choice, there wouldn't be that kind of anguish. If there was a choice, I would be as straight a god damn arrow. But I'm not, because there isn't a choice. Get that through your skull! There is NOT a choice for us.

I have no idea why you would choose this, perhaps you find it romantic to think your being "oprresed", perhaps you are a masochist, perhaps its a way of rebelling, perhaps you just want to make it easier to get laid. Either way you made the choice you live with it.

milo1047 · Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1141

mwm1331 wrote: Quote: Why would anyone choose to be gay? To be hated and looked down upon simply because you like girls instead of boys or boys instead of girls? To be seen as "unnatural" and disgusting, to be reviled simply beacause of the way you are? I didn't choose to like boys, I didn't choose to be this way. I just am.

You are so arrogant, assuming that anyone would choose this. People agonize over thsi kind of thing, they fight it and they pray and they struggle not to be this way. If it was a choice, there wouldn't be that kind of anguish. If there was a choice, I would be as straight a god damn arrow. But I'm not, because there isn't a choice. Get that through your skull! There is NOT a choice for us.

I have no idea why you would choose this, perhaps you find it romantic to think your being "oprresed", perhaps you are a masochist, perhaps its a way of rebelling, perhaps you just want to make it easier to get laid. Either way you made the choice you live with it.

I DID NOT MAKE A CHOICE! Get that through your thick skull.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9042

UrielsFyre in a P&G thread wrote: Continuing the "gay is a choice" argument that so many make, consider this: The American Psychological Association considers homosexuality to be a characteristic of a person that is NOT chosen. In fact, the APA in coordination with American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and the National Education Association have created a document entitled "Just the Facts about Homosexuality." This document backs up the claim by the APA and condemns "reparative therapy" as ineffective and detrimental to a person's health.

Add that to the fact that NARTH, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, is the only professional association of medical professionals, educators, or sexual researchers that condemn homosexuality as a choice or promote "reparative therapy."

What does that leave us with? It leaves us with an overwhelming voice from the professional community that being gay is NOT a choice, reparative therapy does NOT work, and sexuality develops at an early age.

Therefore, given that one can safely side with the majority of health and educational professionals on the debate, the "its a choice" argument can be laid to rest.

Thought this was worth repeating.

milo1047 · Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1141

UrielsFyre wrote: UrielsFyre in a P&G thread wrote: Continuing the "gay is a choice" argument that so many make, consider this: The American Psychological Association considers homosexuality to be a characteristic of a person that is NOT chosen. In fact, the APA in coordination with American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and the National Education Association have created a document entitled "Just the Facts about Homosexuality." This document backs up the claim by the APA and condemns "reparative therapy" as ineffective and detrimental to a person's health.

Add that to the fact that NARTH, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, is the only professional association of medical professionals, educators, or sexual researchers that condemn homosexuality as a choice or promote "reparative therapy."

What does that leave us with? It leaves us with an overwhelming voice from the professional community that being gay is NOT a choice, reparative therapy does NOT work, and sexuality develops at an early age.

Therefore, given that one can safely side with the majority of health and educational professionals on the debate, the "its a choice" argument can be laid to rest.

Thought this was worth repeating. :clap:

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

milo1047 wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: UrielsFyre in a P&G thread wrote: Continuing the "gay is a choice" argument that so many make, consider this: The American Psychological Association considers homosexuality to be a characteristic of a person that is NOT chosen. In fact, the APA in coordination with American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and the National Education Association have created a document entitled "Just the Facts about Homosexuality." This document backs up the claim by the APA and condemns "reparative therapy" as ineffective and detrimental to a person's health.

Add that to the fact that NARTH, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, is the only professional association of medical professionals, educators, or sexual researchers that condemn homosexuality as a choice or promote "reparative therapy."

What does that leave us with? It leaves us with an overwhelming voice from the professional community that being gay is NOT a choice, reparative therapy does NOT work, and sexuality develops at an early age.

Therefore, given that one can safely side with the majority of health and educational professionals on the debate, the "its a choice" argument can be laid to rest.

Thought this was worth repeating. :clap:

Aren't these the sam organisation that once believed homosexuality a mental disease?
They do not believe it is a choice.
I know better.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: We are all born heterosexual, some choose not to stay heterosexual.
You chose to live your lifetstyle, I chose to stay who I was born.

So do you think that you could choose to enjoy intercourse with men? I find it extremely hard to imagine finding men sexually attractive. If it's easy for you then maybe you should go with your feelings.

milo1047 · Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1141

mwm1331 wrote: milo1047 wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: UrielsFyre in a P&G thread wrote: Continuing the "gay is a choice" argument that so many make, consider this: The American Psychological Association considers homosexuality to be a characteristic of a person that is NOT chosen. In fact, the APA in coordination with American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and the National Education Association have created a document entitled "Just the Facts about Homosexuality." This document backs up the claim by the APA and condemns "reparative therapy" as ineffective and detrimental to a person's health.

Add that to the fact that NARTH, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, is the only professional association of medical professionals, educators, or sexual researchers that condemn homosexuality as a choice or promote "reparative therapy."

What does that leave us with? It leaves us with an overwhelming voice from the professional community that being gay is NOT a choice, reparative therapy does NOT work, and sexuality develops at an early age.

Therefore, given that one can safely side with the majority of health and educational professionals on the debate, the "its a choice" argument can be laid to rest.

Thought this was worth repeating. :clap:

Aren't these the sam organisation that once believed homosexuality a mental disease?
They do not believe it is a choice.
I know better.

you know? YOU KNOW? You know jack s**t, my friend. You're not gay, and I doubt you know anyone who's gay. Frankly, I'm amazed you know anything.

Several homosexual people have told you, from personal experience, it is not a choice. Are you even comprehending these words?

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9042

mwm1331 wrote: milo1047 wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: UrielsFyre in a P&G thread wrote: Continuing the "gay is a choice" argument that so many make, consider this: The American Psychological Association considers homosexuality to be a characteristic of a person that is NOT chosen. In fact, the APA in coordination with American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and the National Education Association have created a document entitled "Just the Facts about Homosexuality." This document backs up the claim by the APA and condemns "reparative therapy" as ineffective and detrimental to a person's health.

Add that to the fact that NARTH, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, is the only professional association of medical professionals, educators, or sexual researchers that condemn homosexuality as a choice or promote "reparative therapy."

What does that leave us with? It leaves us with an overwhelming voice from the professional community that being gay is NOT a choice, reparative therapy does NOT work, and sexuality develops at an early age.

Therefore, given that one can safely side with the majority of health and educational professionals on the debate, the "its a choice" argument can be laid to rest.

Thought this was worth repeating. :clap:

Aren't these the sam organisation that once believed homosexuality a mental disease?
They do not believe it is a choice.
I know better.

That is the point. The AMA, the APA, and the various other organizations that are listed as contributing to the aforementioned document do NOT believe that homosexuality is a choice.

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

milo1047 wrote: mwm1331 wrote: milo1047 wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: UrielsFyre in a P&G thread wrote: Continuing the "gay is a choice" argument that so many make, consider this: The American Psychological Association considers homosexuality to be a characteristic of a person that is NOT chosen. In fact, the APA in coordination with American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and the National Education Association have created a document entitled "Just the Facts about Homosexuality." This document backs up the claim by the APA and condemns "reparative therapy" as ineffective and detrimental to a person's health.

Add that to the fact that NARTH, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, is the only professional association of medical professionals, educators, or sexual researchers that condemn homosexuality as a choice or promote "reparative therapy."

What does that leave us with? It leaves us with an overwhelming voice from the professional community that being gay is NOT a choice, reparative therapy does NOT work, and sexuality develops at an early age.

Therefore, given that one can safely side with the majority of health and educational professionals on the debate, the "its a choice" argument can be laid to rest.

Thought this was worth repeating. :clap:

Aren't these the sam organisation that once believed homosexuality a mental disease?
They do not believe it is a choice.
I know better.

you know? YOU KNOW? You know jack s**t, my friend. You're not gay, and I doubt you know anyone who's gay. Frankly, I'm amazed you know anything.

Several homosexual people have told you, from personal experience, it is not a choice. Are you even comprehending these words?

The poor also believe poverty is not a choice, despite the fact that it is a choice they make every day. Few people are willing to accept responsibillioty for the consequences of thier own choices, why should homosexuals be any different.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote:
The poor also believe poverty is not a choice, despite the fact that it is a choice they make every day. Few people are willing to accept responsibillioty for the consequences of thier own choices, why should homosexuals be any different.

The difference is that poverty is a lack of money, the result of following certain desires. Meanwhile homosexuality is a desire.

The better comparison would be actually partaking in homosexual intercourse, and being poor.

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

Reason wrote: Quote:
The poor also believe poverty is not a choice, despite the fact that it is a choice they make every day. Few people are willing to accept responsibillioty for the consequences of thier own choices, why should homosexuals be any different.

The difference is that poverty is a lack of money, the result of following certain desires. Meanwhile homosexuality is a desire.

The better comparison would be actually partaking in homosexual intercourse, and being poor.

And homosexuality is a lack of morals.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: And homosexuality is a lack of morals.

Homosexuality is a desire...it is not a lack of morals. Even in your own frame of reference, that homosexuality is a sin, it is not the desire that is the sin but the acting on it.

You may say that the latter is a choice, as it clearly is, but you may not say that having homosexual desires is a choice.