Political Crossfire Forums

[pharaoh]

Moath wrote: pharaoh wrote: cool_chick wrote: I think it's time for someone to take a trip to Egypt....

:-D

C'mon...dont embarrass him :)

I was kidding about that "Where have you been..."... It's sort of like "thanks a lot for the help". That's what I meant. :wink:
I didn't take it in that sense.

Man we are just kidding with ya...relax... :-D

[Saracen]

I know. :wink:

:-D

[Saracen]

I'm going to re-quote Trajan's post, and I want to see what you guys can add to it:

Why hate Islam?

Because close minded willfullly ignorant know it alls fail to realise that any religon can and has been perverted by those who profess to follow the faith for their own nefarious ends.

For centuries, religon has been used as an excuse to rape/pillage/conquer in the name of whatever God they profess to believe in.

Some terrorist cries to Allah before he blows himself up, and out comes the Islamofascist label. Another one cries Allulah Ackbar as he tosses a grenade, and again, the label pops out.

And many buy into it. UBL says he follows Islam, and instantly Islam is called a religon of violence. Well kiddies, in that light, so is Christianity.
How many Moors were slaughtered in Spain? How many pograms have Jews suffered from Christians?

How many of the New World died at the hands of the Most Christian Spanish? How many in Constantinople at the hands of the Crusade that was suppossed to help them?

How about Northern Ireland? Protestents and Catholics bombing each other. I don't recall any of them being labled Christofascists.

And don't get me started on the Catholic Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, etc.

I'll say it again and again and again. It is not the religon. It is, and I don't care what faith it is, the ones who pervert it for their own ends that are the problem.

And don't bother with quotes from the Koran trying to prove it is a religon of violence. You'll find the same things in the Bible.

[889923445566948]

Hi,

Great topic.

First of all, to say "everyone" hate Islam is a broad sweeping generalization that catergorzing people into a belief they do not share or are too ignorant to make a decision.

Let's explore the question:

I am a person raised in Catholicism and to get out it now, I do not hold much respect for the Vatican government. But, that is my opinion and if you are a respectful Catholic, then my apologies if you are offended. I have many reasons for my disrespect.

What is presented to us in this present day are images of people born in poverty that from birth have been raised and educated in extreme fundamental teachings of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is a guide to life for millions of people, just as the Bible and Torah. One can teach others of the good that each book instructs.

After reading the Qur'an and some Ahadith, I find that no one can dispute that the underlying directive of these is to promote Isam until all the world submits to the teaching of Allah and Mohammed.

I would challenge anyone to disprove that it is written in the Qur'an that Isams must be spread through Jihad to those that are non-believers.

I would challenge anyone to disprove that it is written in the Qur'an that those that are non-believers have three choice while living under Islamic law:

1. Submit and convert to Islam
2. Live as a "Person of the Book" (Meaning, Judaist or Christain, for Islam recognized Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as prophets.) , yet you will live as a second class citizen and pay the Jiyza (sorry if word is not correct) and you will pay under humiliation, but yet be protected by the Islamic ruling nation.
3. Penalty of Death.

It is unfortunate that so many are brainwashed by this idealology and will submit their lives to kill and maim as many as possible, even fellow muslims.

So, when one inquires about hatred of Islam, it is not Islam that is hated, but the context that it is being portrayed.

Many muslims live peaceful lives and do not agree with the underlying teachings of the Qur'an. Just as many Christains and Jews do not stone people to death because the Bible or Old Testament direct such action.

Fundamental Isamic teaching have not changed for 14 centuries and it is quite evident in today's world.

One could argue that if it's true, then non-muslims should not be in Islamic countries. Sure, but humanity as a whole needs every person of every culture to live together peacefully and in harmony in order to survive.

I truly believe for that to happen, then as a people we need to eradicate all fundamental teachings of all religions and realize it is not the "questionable" teachings of prophets that will determine our future, but the realization that we will not survive as a race if we act on those directives.

Hate Islam? Not in the least. Hate people that kill in the name of religion? You bet!

May peace be upon us all.

[Saracen]

Quote: First of all, to say "everyone" hate Islam is a broad sweeping generalization that catergorzing people into a belief they do not share or are too ignorant to make a decision.

Welcome to the forums! Good opening post so far. :clap:

Quote: I am a person raised in Catholicism and to get out it now, I do not hold much respect for the Vatican government. But, that is my opinion and if you are a respectful Catholic, then my apologies if you are offended. I have many reasons for my disrespect.

No problem. Disrespect isn't the word though. I think you mean "misunderstanding". But the Vatican govt. is supposed to represent the Roman Catholic church, not the teachings of Catholicism.


Quote: What is presented to us in this present day are images of people born in poverty that from birth have been raised and educated in extreme fundamental teachings of the Qur'an.

They have been educated wrongly about it. Think about it this way: the KKK are to Christianity as the AQ are to Islam. :)

Quote: After reading the Qur'an and some Ahadith, I find that no one can dispute that the underlying directive of these is to promote Isam until all the world submits to the teaching of Allah and Mohammed.

Actually, my newfound friend, the people of AQ claim that they are spreading Islam whereas they seek to kill "infidels" without any proper Islamic justification:
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

[quote]I would challenge anyone to disprove that it is written in the Qur'an that Isams must be spread through Jihad to those that are non-believers.

I would challenge anyone to disprove that it is written in the Qur'an that those that are non-believers have three choice while living under Islamic law:

1. Submit and convert to IslamOnly when the aggressors attack Muslims out of hate and prejudice against the Islamic religion
2. Live as a "Person of the Book" (Meaning, Judaist or Christain, for Islam recognized Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as prophets.) , yet you will live as a second class citizen and pay the Jiyza (sorry if word is not correct) and you will pay under humiliation, but yet be protected by the Islamic ruling nation.Same as above
3. Penalty of Death.If those who are vitriolically aggressive and do not conform to the defense (counter-attack), then yes, the penalty is death

Quote: It is unfortunate that so many are brainwashed by this idealology and will submit their lives to kill and maim as many as possible, even fellow muslims.

Not just brainwashed. They have been brainwashed by a misinterpretation of the religion.

Quote: So, when one inquires about hatred of Islam, it is not Islam that is hated, but the context that it is being portrayed.

AQ's context, that is.

Quote: Many muslims live peaceful lives and do not agree with the underlying teachings of the Qur'an. Just as many Christains and Jews do not stone people to death because the Bible or Old Testament direct such action.

Well, the teachings of the Koran don't claim stoning to death out of blatant hate and unjustification, but as a sort of "capital punishment".

Quote: Fundamental Isamic teaching have not changed for 14 centuries and it is quite evident in today's world.

Actually, the original followers of Islam were more tolerable and practiced Islam at its best during those times. They were not extremists.
http://www.islam-guide.com/
http://www.muhammad.net/

Quote: One could argue that if it's true, then non-muslims should not be in Islamic countries. Sure, but humanity as a whole needs every person of every culture to live together peacefully and in harmony in order to survive.

This is what Islam teaches as well. I concur 120%. :tu:

Quote: I truly believe for that to happen, then as a people we need to eradicate all fundamental teachings of all religions and realize it is not the "questionable" teachings of prophets that will determine our future, but the realization that we will not survive as a race if we act on those directives.

Not the fundamental teachings. Just the fundamentalists and their ideologies. We should also clarify these teachings. For example, about Jizya, it is a 1% tax for all non-Muslims. However, Muslims pay a mandatory 2.5% annual tax called Zakat, which is a religious duty as well. In fact, that money goes to good hands: the poor and needy.

Quote: Hate Islam? Not in the least. Hate people that kill in the name of religion? You bet!

As do I. Welcome to the forums. I'm sure you'll enjoy it here. :-D

Quote: May peace be upon us all.

Indeed. :tu:

[jeechoscopy]

Don’t make simply an image about Islam considering the running century. The difference between Moslem and Christian societies was not so big only a hundred years ago.

Radicals could be found in the every corner of the world. Radicals are not developed genetically, or religiously but motivationally.

The war against terror is a political movement needs those radicals to fulfill the strategy. And Osama is the best-used radical. Some activities demonstrate that radicalism in Muslim countries is promoted. Like Afghanistan and now in Iraq. Palestine is a different story.

About profiling Muslim countries I’ll like to consider the brief history of democracy and marshal-laws in Pakistan. Pakistan was found in 1947 as a democratic country –by the votes of parliamentarians* of British India. Since its foundation a half-life of its politics is under marshal laws. And the other is democracy. Under the democracy age Pakistan has segregation movements or sanctions by the world community. But Under marshal laws times Pakistan has been developed its economy and power in the world. So it was a message for Pakistan that keep marshals your lords or stay backward. Perhaps because marshals has been keeping good dictations.

[889923445566948]

Welcome to the forums! Good opening post so far. :clap:

Thank you for your kind response. Such a delicate subject, yet at least don't skewer me at the onset! :-D

No problem. Disrespect isn't the word though. I think you mean "misunderstanding". But the Vatican govt. is supposed to represent the Roman Catholic church, not the teachings of Catholicism.

Point well taken. :tu:

They have been educated wrongly about it. Think about it this way: the KKK are to Christianity as the AQ are to Islam. :)

Another great point. And to those not familiar, how long did it take to turn the tide against the abhorrent members?

Actually, my newfound friend, the people of AQ claim that they are spreading Islam whereas they seek to kill "infidels" without any proper Islamic justification:
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

Sorry, but I have been pretty busy and I can assure you I will review your references. In time, my friend, in time.

1. Submit and convert to Islam[b]Only when the aggressors attack Muslims out of hate and prejudice against the Islamic religion[/b]
2. Live as a "Person of the Book" (Meaning, Judaist or Christain, for Islam recognized Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as prophets.) , yet you will live as a second class citizen and pay the Jiyza (sorry if word is not correct) and you will pay under humiliation, but yet be protected by the Islamic ruling nation.[b]Same as above[/b]
3. Penalty of Death.[b]If those who are vitriolically aggressive and do not conform to the defense (counter-attack), then yes, the penalty is death[/b]

[quote]It is unfortunate that so many are brainwashed by this idealology and will submit their lives to kill and maim as many as possible, even fellow muslims.[/quote]

Not just brainwashed. They have been brainwashed by a misinterpretation of the religion.

[quote]So, when one inquires about hatred of Islam, it is not Islam that is hated, but the context that it is being portrayed.[/quote]

AQ's context, that is.

Yes, AQ, Islamiyah Jemiah (sp?), Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

[quote]Many muslims live peaceful lives and do not agree with the underlying teachings of the Qur'an. Just as many Christains and Jews do not stone people to death because the Bible or Old Testament direct such action.[/quote]

Well, the teachings of the Koran don't claim stoning to death out of blatant hate and unjustification, but as a sort of "capital punishment".

Well, there are, however, nations under psuedo "Sharia Law" that are using stoning a means of capital punishment. Nigeria, the ex-Taliban (Thank G_d), and maybe more.

[quote]Fundamental Isamic teaching have not changed for 14 centuries and it is quite evident in today's world. [/quote]

Actually, the original followers of Islam were more tolerable and practiced Islam at its best during those times. They were not extremists.
http://www.islam-guide.com/
http://www.muhammad.net/

I wonder, what has created the divide between the faiths of the world? Is it the ever persuit of power and money? Or is the persuit to ensure that no person will ever be persecuted for the religious beliefs?

[quote]One could argue that if it's true, then non-muslims should not be in Islamic countries. Sure, but humanity as a whole needs every person of every culture to live together peacefully and in harmony in order to survive.[/quote]

This is what Islam teaches as well. I concur 120%. :tu:

I believe that all religions and philosophies teach this as well. May it enter every person's mind and lead them to contemplate their own doings.

[quote]I truly believe for that to happen, then as a people we need to eradicate all fundamental teachings of all religions and realize it is not the "questionable" teachings of prophets that will determine our future, but the realization that we will not survive as a race if we act on those directives.[/quote]

Not the fundamental teachings. Just the fundamentalists and their ideologies. We should also clarify these teachings. For example, about Jizya, it is a 1% tax for all non-Muslims. However, Muslims pay a mandatory 2.5% annual tax called Zakat, which is a religious duty as well. In fact, that money goes to good hands: the poor and needy.

[quote]Hate Islam? Not in the least. Hate people that kill in the name of religion? You bet![/quote]

As do I. Welcome to the forums. I'm sure you'll enjoy it here. :-D

[quote]May peace be upon us all.[/quote]

Indeed. :tu:[/quote]

Thank you for your considerate and kind replies. I am not one to invoke a debate of my own beliefs, but use this forum as a construct for everyone that wishes to participate to contribute, teach, and learn for those that also belong.

Peace to you and all,

Best Regards.

p.s...I apologize for I do not know how to separate the quotes from previous posts....hopefully, I will not do discredit to those that I am quoting.

Tips welcome! :-D

[Saracen]

You have misunderstood, but now you understand. Again, welcome. :-D

[889923445566948]

[quote="Moath"]You have misunderstood, but now you understand. Again, welcome. :-D[/quote]

What I have I misunderstood? As far as our conversation is going....

[Saracen]

Well, your misunderstanding towards Islam has now been cleared, and now you understand. :-D

[jeechoscopy]

Why hate?
It’s because, the next agenda after coping the USSR and a bit failure in Neuro-colonization, otherwise, why so big investment in?