Political Crossfire Forums

Locke25 · Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 3636 Location: Georgia

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Since the Bible came into this, I just would like to point out that I am not a Christian and I believe the Christian should stop pushing their moral values onto other people.

:lol: have I been wrong thinking this whole time that you're Muslim?

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Locke25 wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Since the Bible came into this, I just would like to point out that I am not a Christian and I believe the Christian should stop pushing their moral values onto other people.

:lol: have I been wrong thinking this whole time that you're Muslim?

Incorrect! But I was raised in an Islamic country [ie: Iran], so I have first hand experience. :wink:

d00d · Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 269 Location: Canada

Lord Hargreaves wrote: Is the wearing of the burqa necessary to be a good muslim? If not, why would women wish to wear it? To me, it just strikes me as female oppression :-|

Are Sikh men being oppressed because they wear turbans? No, they are just practicing their religion. I am a Sikh and I do not wear a turban however I am not being persecuted for not wearing one. It is my choice and people respect that. I know a lot of Muslim girls from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq that do not wear burqas or hijabs.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6939 Location: Ohio

Idiotic.

Europe was no nice place in the Middle Ages, nor were the Puritan towns in the New World. Why?

Christianity was shoved down peoples' throat.

NO area is good if ANY religion is shoved down your throat.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16379 Location: On Earth

NO area is good if ANY religion is shoved down your throat.

That's why the Holy Lands (Jerusalem and its surroundings) were a great place for all denominations to live at the time of the crusades. I am not being biased; this is historic fact and you can ask other ppl about it, especially other Arabs.

For more info, see the "What's wrong with Islam" forum...

cassandrabandra · Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 853

Lord Hargreaves wrote:

This is what people are wearing now in the West. Its the Arabisation of Western Islam

the burqa isn't arabic. it originates in Afghanistan, and was originally only worn by higher class women. Probably to 'protect' them from the gaze of other men. Over time the wearing of the burqa spread to other women, as a sign of status - probably the status of husbands, more than of the women - but that's only a guess.

when the Taliban seized power, they imposed the burqa on all Afghan women. (Western women working in aid organisations were required to wear scarves, but not the full burqa) This cannot be considered unusual, as Khomeini had imposed the Chador on all Iranian women after the 1979 revolution, and the abeya has been essential for women in Saudi Arabia when leaving the home. If the US had been interested in the rights of women they would not have abandoned Afghanistan after the Russians were defeated, knowing that a fundamentalist regime was likely to seize power (something Gorbachev had warned about).

Many Afghan men were not happy with the burqa being imposed. It was not part of the culture for educated urban elites, or even for many others.

In many other cultures women cover when leaving the home. Often this is not the law, but more the 'norms' of the society. many rural women cover fully when out and about because they are shy, as much as for reasons of social acceptability. This is not unique to Muslim societies BTW - Rural Ethiopian Copts also cover up.

Many women are comfortable wearing an abeya or similar, as it gives the opportunity to go about their business without having men look at them. Some find this liberating. For others it does feel like an imposition, and in many places it is the sharp tongues of other women that cause many to cover up - not the eyes of men. But then - whats so unusual about that? In the west its usually other women who criticize your clothes and what they reveal about your morals.

Hijab itself can be a fashion statement, usually designed to draw attention from other women. I don't think this is quite the way it was intended.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

No one here claims that anybody should be forced to wear a Burqa, Abaya or headscarf, do they?
Quote:
There were times in history (that is 100% true) when poverty was completely inexistant.The government took the Zaka (money that muslims give to the poor) and couldnt find any poor man/women to give him/her the money!

Knowing what government's are like I suggest that it was that the government wanted to money and so said they could find no-one to give it to. I highly doubt that there was a time of plenty in the past, there's no evidence of it whatsoever.

There's no evidence and not reason why this would be the case....do you seriously believe that there was no poverty under the first Caliph?

pharaoh · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject:

There were times when there were not even 1 poor man under the Islamic state. Whether some people dont like this fact in history is their own problem.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: There were times when there were not even 1 poor man under the Islamic state. Whether some people dont like this fact in history is their own problem.

:lol: Ever heard of evidence? Of reason? :lol: Would you like to give me a time period and a country in which this was the case, with evidence of your absurd claim?

Or can we all make random assertions and claim them as true? Maybe I'll claim that only atheiests are ever happy and only atheists go to heaven - a funny line - it's got no reasoning or evidence behind it, but it's as good as your equally ridiculous claim.

pharaoh · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

Example: Omar ibn abd el aziz.
:lol: See? I can laugh too :lol:
:roll:

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Example: Omar ibn abd el aziz.

That isn't evidence.....also it's 'abdel' not 'abd el'. Why do you belive this ridiculous claim?

pharaoh · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: Example: Omar ibn abd el aziz.

That isn't evidence.....also it's 'abdel' not 'abd el'. Why do you belive this ridiculous claim?

Oh boy! I did EXACLTY what you asked for...didnt you say:"Would you like to give me a time period and a country in which this was the case, with evidence of your absurd claim?"

And I gave you these by showing you the name of the leader and still that aint enough for you even though I answered your question. You are just here to troll and I dont have time for you.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: Oh boy! I did EXACLTY what you asked for...didnt you say:"Would you like to give me a time period and a country in which this was the case, with evidence of your absurd claim?"

I said EVIDENCE...I will give you the name of the atheist leader who made all his subjects perfectly happy for eternity - ahoehfipf fiejfp. What you don't believe me? THat's because I lack evidence or reason in my assertion just liek you do.

pharaoh · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject:

Reason wrote: Quote: Oh boy! I did EXACLTY what you asked for...didnt you say:"Would you like to give me a time period and a country in which this was the case, with evidence of your absurd claim?"

I said EVIDENCE...I will give you the name of the atheist leader who made all his subjects perfectly happy for eternity - ahoehfipf fiejfp. What you don't believe me? THat's because I lack evidence or reason in my assertion just liek you do.

The only problem with your lame theory is that there is no history book that talks about ahoehfipf fiejfp but there are atleast dozens that talk about Omar ibn abd el aziz. Now leave me alone, cant you see im busy? :?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: The only problem with your lame theory is that there is no history book that talks about ahoehfipf fiejfp but there are atleast dozens that talk about Omar ibn abd el aziz. Now leave me alone, cant you see im busy? Confused

You're busy trying to get people to believe stuff with no evidence, absurd stuff..I was doing the same....

Psycho Sid · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 18

Lord:

"Is the wearing of the burqa necessary to be a good muslim? If not, why would women wish to wear it? To me, it just strikes me as female oppression "

The Buraq is Islam protecting women from predators and shielding her honor and modesty. Plus, women generally wear it voluntarily in the Middle East, since modesty and honor there is much valued, and they don't want to give them up easily.

Patience · Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 62

Lord Hargreaves wrote: Is the wearing of the burqa necessary to be a good muslim? If not, why would women wish to wear it? To me, it just strikes me as female oppression :-|

Some islamic scholars said that burqa is obligatory, some others said not. Muslim women choose what suit them and think that it is right and do accordingly.

I wear it beacuase i believe it is mandatoy and because i feel more respected in it, it saves me from men's looks and staring. I feel dignified. :-D

It is not oppression at all! On the contrary, it gives more freedom to the woman, her body is for her ONLY, not for everyone in the street!

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: It is not oppression at all! On the contrary, it gives more freedom to the woman, her body is for her ONLY, not for everyone in the street!

Fair enough, buit what do you think of men who want to force the Burqa on women, as sometimes happens?

I typed Burqa into google images and found plenty of very stylish Burqa photos (please don't be offended, please)

on the other hand there's always this:

JLChrista · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 74

After years of not being taken seriously, only lived in the USA, I have taken to wearing what I call my american burqa. Black loose jeans, black hoody and a black newsboy hat. . . . I happen to be one of the rare few who is naturally slender with largish boobs and the distraction it seems to cause with men is just too much most of the time. Now when I speak, I am heard; when I join in for drinks or coffee, the conversations stay on topic, not on me. So I guess I would have to say that the concept of the burqa for some is a good concept; but many women truly like that type of attention (I certainly did in my younger days) and I would woe the day that I was required to dress this way. And when I have had a man in my life, it was my choice to present a more attractive and sexy person to him and him alone in the privacy of our home. Usually he would also be much more relaxed in public with me as opposed to the men of my youth, who were usually sniping at me or the men watching me. So though I have never been to the middle east, nor have I ever been muslim; I think I can safely say that burqas are not to enslave but to actually free women to be respected and to be considered for something other than looks.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: I think I can safely say that burqas are not to enslave but to actually free women to be respected and to be considered for something other than looks.

It depends if they are enforced or not. Originally they were possibly intended to keep the woman fair for her husband. In Arabia the sun is pretty strong, and people are naturally quite pale.