Political Crossfire Forums

duskdawn · Joined: 01 Aug 2005 Posts: 46

It is moved to the following link

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34462

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

North America is full of idiots, I am one of them.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Well, I think China isn't really a Communist state. It has combined free market capitalism with some aspects of Communism, so I don't think China is really Communist. Ever since the rule of Deng Xiaoping, China has not been a Communist state.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

China is still very opressive.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.

PricklySponge · Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 9239

duskdawn wrote: Hello, every one!
I am a medical student in China and currently doing my research project in USA and will be here for next 2 years.
I know there are lot of american people here so I chose here to post some of my thoughts. It has buried in my mind since a long time ago.
Before you read, please note as a premise that I like American people and I am here not to debate but only to express my opinions and listen to yours. I believe communications are more important than debate to clear the misunderstandings. So please be polite.

My family is in Beijing, which is the capital of China, PR. My parents were workers when I was a kid, but now my mother is a civil servant and my father has an ordinary job with ordinary salary in a company. I tell you this because I want you to know my social status which could help you to extend my opinion to a much wider population in China.

I believed in Communism, as almost all my classmates and peers, since very young. If you ask for my religion or belief and that is mine. There is a paradise, people can share and work together for community's future based on fortune and high moral. Isn't that amazing? I thought this must be the same wish of everyone in this world who are not insane.
But when I grew up, I found this might not be scientifically feasible, although the future of our world will be better and better in some other ways. Well, who knows. So I didn't join the Party. This changes in mind also happened in the Communist party in China. Unlike their colleagues in North Korea, the government initiated a series of gradual reform policies which made China become more open and modern in these 27 years.

If you randomly ask a citizen in China to judge their govenment. He/she will surely list out a lot of things he/she is not satisfied, just like a citizen in USA. However, as a traditional way of talking, he/she will add his/her most important conclusion in end of his talk, that he/she appreciates so much that the current government drived away all the invaders and tyrants in China 56 years ago and make his/her living better and better everyday.
These two things will never be forgotten before we judge our government.

I invite you to visit China, not only Beijing and Shanghai, but those small poor and outlying villages in the western China as well. You will surely understand the achievement we have made and also the difficulties that our government and people encountered. You will be so amazed about out huge population that almost forget the sort-of human rights violations in Birth Control Policies. You will appreciate what we have done to make 1/5 people in this world have foods and rights to survive. (Please don't sniff, there are 1/2 people starved when the PRC was founded which is several times more than the current US population and the indefinite land of China and her economy was suffered and raped for a hundred years since 1840 at that time.)

The government and policies definitely have their problems. People know that, and the government knows that too. Things are really changing, however, in our own ways. If you were not born in a country with a history of 5000 years, you will not understand there will be different way to perform the decromacy and freedom.

I thought Amerian people cherish more about independence and freedom. But do you think it is independent and free to let people's own homeland and government changed by aliens according to an alien's standard. I know you will say that those people anticipating those changes and you are helping them. Really? At least I will not let any foreigners to "help" us by slaughtering our soldiers and officers. Whatever they are working for, they are working for my country. We have our rights and freedom to choose whatever we are and whatever ways to change and reform. If there is a revolution in China, the rebells should be us, not you. What the US goverment caring about is not the lives in other countries, but the oil, fortune and anything that can make sure your arrogant government the leader and No.1 in this world.
I can't tell if China becomes the most powerful country in this world, what will her government do? Because it is politics which I don't like.

Currently I decided to develop an online community(WorldOL.org) to help in communications between people from different countries and religeons. I hope this would help to make our own dream come ture. Whatever it is, people's utopia or God's heaven, it must be like a paradise that all the human race are cherishing.

Well, thank you for your time and have a nice day!

If you posted this in 'politics and government' you might get more responses

sunwukong · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 2

I think it would be great if every country was able to be completely independent and determine its own fate but, however with technology, I see that being an ever increasing impossiblity.

Also, communism and democracy are both great governments from an ideal standing but not when it's brough about by selfish humans... There will probably never be a perfect government just as much as there will never be more than one perfect human. And even He was only half human(mortal).

The problem with democracy combined with capitalism is that inevitably the rich have the power and influence and only increase that which brings the governemt (supposedly of the people) further and further from representing the people and instead representing modern day kings/queens.

Kaoru · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 14

well i like china in some ways, and dislike it alot it others.

I don't like chinas gov.
I do like china's food.
I don't like china's unempoloyment rate,
I do like chinas geography
I don't like china's involvment in the UN
I do like china's writing

chenmon_1983 · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:28 am Post subject:

Gogo Yubari wrote: China is still very opressive.

Hey you son of b****!!Have you ever been to China??Oh,I don't think you have the courage because you Japanese are never welcome in our country!!! :evil:

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

chenmon_1983 wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: China is still very opressive.

Hey you son of b****!!Have you ever been to China??Oh,I don't think you have the courage because you Japanese are never welcome in our country!!! :evil:

Did you write this or did it come from the government handbook?

foadi · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 13717 Location: bangkok thailand

I don't know what in the hell you're talking about, chenmon. China is Japan's largest trading partner. There's a lot of Japanese people in China.

dolphin · Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 142

Gogo Yubari wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.

Perhaps you do not familiar with China's situation very much. It is a very difficult issue that could not could be explained in several lines of words. China's capitalism is kinda special capitalism compared to those implemented in west countries. The Chinese leaders are trying to INVENT a theroy to combine communism and capitalism perfectly. All we are suffering is just a process of this interim.

anti-communist · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 155

chenmon_1983 wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: China is still very opressive.

Hey you son of b****!!Have you ever been to China??Oh,I don't think you have the courage because you Japanese are never welcome in our country!!! :evil:
i think china is not oppressive ,but chinese communist party has oppressed its own people for more than 50 years.

anti-communist · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 155

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Well, I think China isn't really a Communist state. It has combined free market capitalism with some aspects of Communism, so I don't think China is really Communist. Ever since the rule of Deng Xiaoping, China has not been a Communist state.
Do you really believe china is free market economy country ?Ridiculous!! if you are a foreign or Taiwan investor ready to do business in china ,you can’t get permit unless bribe senior officer ,there ‘s corrupt officers everywhere ,and bureaucratic conception every where. .you just can’t open a barbershop if don’t give local tax bureau some “profit”.

anti-communist · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 155

Gogo Yubari wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.
I totally agree with you Gogo Yubari
And some western mates here forget that in china,if you want to establish a company which can earn billions a year ,it’s impossible unless you have government background ,so china don’t have one entrepreneur like Bill Gates who earn billions by his own wisdom

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

anti-communist wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.
I totally agree with you Gogo Yubari
And some western mates here forget that in china,if you want to establish a company which can earn billions a year ,it’s impossible unless you have government background ,so china don’t have one entrepreneur like Bill Gates who earn billions by his own wisdom

Are you actually in China? :lol: I mean, can you really say this stuff without watching your back?

I can just smell the corruption that must go on with multi-billion corporations there. Actually, is it technically "corruption" if the government is omnipotent and controls everything? Corruption would imply laws are being broken. I do admire the Chinese industrious spirit though and I think if China was democratic, there would be no stopping them and there would be plenty of chinese Bill Gates around.

anti-communist · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 155

dolphin wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.

Perhaps you do not familiar with China's situation very much. It is a very difficult issue that could not could be explained in several lines of words. China's capitalism is kinda special capitalism compared to those implemented in west countries. The Chinese leaders are trying to INVENT a theroy to combine communism and capitalism perfectly. All we are suffering is just a process of this interim.
What is the final purpose of “trying to INVENT a theroy to combine communism and capitalism”. Build a theory “combine democratic polity and 100% free market economy is a another good choice? Why they must combine communist? The answer is easy !They(the communist party )afraid to lose power ,the party want to live longer, this is the aim and essence of Deng Xiaoping’s reform ! Otherwise ,they will never reform their economy .There is also a rhymes made by Chinese ordinary citizen “reject reform means dead to the communist party,but reform on party’s initiative means commit suicide himself.(“不改革就是等死，改革就是找死”，any Chinese mates here could help me translate this more aptly so let western friends here could understand it easily )

anti-communist · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 155

Gogo Yubari wrote: anti-communist wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.
I totally agree with you Gogo Yubari
And some western mates here forget that in china,if you want to establish a company which can earn billions a year ,it’s impossible unless you have government background ,so china don’t have one entrepreneur like Bill Gates who earn billions by his own wisdom

Are you actually in China? :lol: I mean, can you really say this stuff without watching your back?

what's that mean ?i can't understand .

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

anti-communist wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: anti-communist wrote: Gogo Yubari wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: China is still very opressive.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a very repressive state that engages in mind control to some extent, but they have "Free Market Communism" [I don't know if that's the right name or not].

I think that is the best Label to call it. I dont know about Free market becasue Socialist philosophers consider Socialism the pinnicle of a free market. Then again, if you want to look at the companies that make billions in China, then pay their workers 75 cents a day, I guess it is quite Free, for the companies.
I totally agree with you Gogo Yubari
And some western mates here forget that in china,if you want to establish a company which can earn billions a year ,it’s impossible unless you have government background ,so china don’t have one entrepreneur like Bill Gates who earn billions by his own wisdom

Are you actually in China? :lol: I mean, can you really say this stuff without watching your back?

what's that mean ?i can't understand .

I mean, doesn't the Chinese government monitor this kind of conversation. Anti-government conversations. Don;t you have to be careful with what you say? Just wondering, I don;t know much about Chinese laws. This is why I asked if you are IN China right now, or living abroad.