Political Crossfire Forums

[Jufarius87]

is it true that muslim men are promised virgin women in heaven, and if so, why would women want to be part of this religion where they are downgraded to being basicly prostitutes for men who make it to heaven>?

[Locke25]

mm, i'm pretty sure that is true...

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Green/womenstatus.htm

"Lo! those who kept their duty will be in a place secure amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another. Even so (it will be). And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." (Qur'an 44:51-54)

"Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards and maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing." (Qur'an 78:31-33)

sounds like they treat women like they are there to please men and that's about it.. :? someone tell me if i'm wrong!

"Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please." (Qur'an 2:223)
:cry:

[curious_pixie]

Locke25 wrote: mm, i'm pretty sure that is true...

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Green/womenstatus.htm

"Lo! those who kept their duty will be in a place secure amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another. Even so (it will be). And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." (Qur'an 44:51-54)

"Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards and maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing." (Qur'an 78:31-33)

sounds like they treat women like they are there to please men and that's about it.. :? someone tell me if i'm wrong!
Instead of quoting scripture, let me pose the following question. Where does it say that the houris (celestial virgins) are recruited from the souls of humanity?

Quote:
"Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please." (Qur'an 2:223)
:cry:
The metaphor of the field (though you omitted the second half of the verse which states to treat them fairly and honourably at all times) is found in other monotheistic religions as well.

[John]

72 women to deal with? I have enough trouble with one. :lol:

[pharaoh]

Jufarius87,

Quote: is it true that muslim men are promised virgin women in heaven, and if so, why would women want to be part of this religion where they are downgraded to being basicly prostitutes for men who make it to heaven>?

These "virgin women" are called Hour ein.
God has created them for men.They are like angels,they dont have souls.
And for your information if both the husband the wife go to heaven,the wife will be even prettier than the Hour ein.
If you read more about Islam from at least neutral sites you will know that Islam treats women better than any other religion.

Locke25,

Yes you are wrong Locke25.
This site that you are using as refference will only explain to you Islam in his way.Which means in a false way.
Women and men are indeed equal before god.
I might show you later own many verses and hadiths that proves this.

John,

If you wanna compare the status of women in the bible and in the Koran then be my guest John!

[Locke25]

pharaoh wrote: Locke25,

Yes you are wrong Locke25.
This site that you are using as refference will only explain to you Islam in his way.Which means in a false way.
Women and men are indeed equal before god.
I might show you later own many verses and hadiths that proves this.

hmmmmm, please do show me some stuff from the qu'ran where women are treated equally. i gotta see this.

"And it is for the women to act as they (the husbands) act by them, in all fairness; but the men are a step above them." -Quran 2:228

"Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other." -Quran 4:34

i looked on this site (http://www.submission.org/women/mis.html) and recognizing one of those quotes above, it still says that men and women are equal but their reasoning is all screwed up, so give me a better one

"Men status is higher than that of the women: Again this is not true. Many writers who wrote about women's rights refer to the statement in 4:34 as a sign of the man is above the women in status but it is a misunderstood statement. In 4:34, the expression "..al-rijalu qawwdmuna 'ala al-nisa'i.... " means "The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners." This expression simply means that God is appointing the husband as "captain of the ship." Marriage is like a ship, and the captain runs it after due consultation with his officers. It does not assign inequality but rather assigns duties to avoid conflicts and disputes."

god assigned them the duty of being in control, soooo... how is that equality? equality would be assigning both of them equal control in the relationship.

and then when the qu'ran says...

"O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so." -Qu'ran 2:282

the site gives another stupid reason as to why two women = one man

"Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two women may substitute for one man as witness. This is to guard against the real possibility that one witness may marry the other witness, and thus cause her to be biased. It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men. If the woman as a witness was worth half that of a man, the verse would have stated so clearly..."

so now women are "emotionally vulnerable" and apparently ALWAYS going to be biased because we'll want to MARRY HIM??? wtf... no...

[Jufarius87]

pharaoh wrote: Jufarius87,

Quote: is it true that muslim men are promised virgin women in heaven, and if so, why would women want to be part of this religion where they are downgraded to being basicly prostitutes for men who make it to heaven>?

These "virgin women" are called Hour ein.
God has created them for men.They are like angels,they dont have souls.
And for your information if both the husband the wife go to heaven,the wife will be even prettier than the Hour ein.
If you read more about Islam from at least neutral sites you will know that Islam treats women better than any other religion.

Locke25,

Yes you are wrong Locke25.
This site that you are using as refference will only explain to you Islam in his way.Which means in a false way.
Women and men are indeed equal before god.
I might show you later own many verses and hadiths that proves this.

John,

If you wanna compare the status of women in the bible and in the Koran then be my guest John!

wait a minute..... there is also a verse that states that the testimony of two women is equal to that of man due to the deficience of womans brain.....

even if they are souless sex toys...... it seems kind of hypocritical..... to ask men on earth to be faithful only to their wives only so they can die and essentially cheat on her with at the least the imagess of other women and what proof have that they are souless? verse please

[John]

Quote: John,

If you wanna compare the status of women in the bible and in the Koran then be my guest John!


The Bible tells the Christian man to love his wife like Christ loves the church. Christ DIED for us....so guess what that means. It means that a Christian wife has got it pretty good. :wink:


If you trace out womens rights in history...you will notice it follows the spread of Christianity and takes root where ever Christianity does.

[pharaoh]

locke25,

Quote: hmmmmm, please do show me some stuff from the qu'ran where women are treated equally. i gotta see this.


I said they are equal before God.Meaning god doesnt prefer men over women.
Ok here are some verses about women in the Koran:

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. (The Noble Quran, 33:35)"

"The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey God and His Apostle. On them will God pour His mercy: for God is Exalted in power, Wise. (The Noble Quran, 9:71)"

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

"And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of God, and from His presence is the best of rewards." (The Noble Quran, 3:195)"

"When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief! With shame does he hide himself from his people, Because of the bad news He has had! Shall he retain it On (sufferance and) contempt, Or bury it in the dust? Ah! what an evil (choice) They decide on? (The Noble Quran, 16:58-59)"

Quote: "And it is for the women to act as they (the husbands) act by them, in all fairness; but the men are a step above them." -Quran 2:228

"Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other." -Quran 4:34


Well,they only showed you a part of each verse in order to diseave you.
Read the whole verse 2:228:

2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

As you can see,the degree that a men have here is in divorce.They made it seem like in everything.There are many things were women benefite from certain things more than men.For example,in inheritance a women in many conditions inherite more than a man.In marriage a man is obliged to work and feed his family while the wife has the right to work but she is not obliged to and she may not be forced to work.

Okay now lets read the whole verse 4:34:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (The Noble Quran, 4:34)"

As i said before in Islam family is very important and it is indeed like a boat,you cant have 2 captains or the boat will sink.Okay you may refuse what I am saying but tell me arent most marriages in the US end up in divorce? Do you have any idea on how that distabilize the life of the husband and the wife and most importantly the children?
In Islam,a man being a captian,that is not superiority to me because both the husband and wife are equal before god,so it only means more responsibility to men.Thats how I view it.

As for the 2 women witnesses equals 1 man witness.
Please read this:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/two_women.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=4152

Jufarius87,

Quote: wait a minute..... there is also a verse that states that the testimony of two women is equal to that of man due to the deficience of womans brain.....


plz check out the 2 links above.

Quote: even if they are souless sex toys...... it seems kind of hypocritical..... to ask men on earth to be faithful only to their wives only so they can die and essentially cheat on her with at the least the imagess of other women and what proof have that they are souless? verse please

There can only be hapiness in heaven.There wont be hatred or sadness or envy or any other evil emotion.
Nobody will have these emotions because god will take them out of us.The point of going to heaven is to be happy forever.God will provide that in ways that is beyond your and my understanding.Heaven will be even better than your wildest dreams.
If you could understand this for starters then you might begin to understand that its no where close to cheating or something like that.

John,

Quote: The Bible tells the Christian man to love his wife like Christ loves the church. Christ DIED for us....so guess what that means. It means that a Christian wife has got it pretty good.

You THINK that christ died and you THINK that christ is your god.
Anyway,its all talk John women dont have any concrete rights in Christianity.That is why they have been treated like animals or a mans property till very recently.Thats like 1960 years of status equal to slavery and you tell me a christian wife has got it pretty good?! Yeah Riiiight.
Women in Europe and the US were saved by secularism and due to the seperation of the church.Get your facts straight John :)

[Locke25]

okay, i still see God as seeing them as equals in only certain aspects. men can’t show “harshness” towards them – alright, that shows he thinks they don’t deserve to be treated like property.. or something along those lines. both men & women will get rewards for doing good things – okay, both are capable of doing good things. both are two make sure one another obey god… so men & women are religiously equal. God will reward them both cause both are worthy enough. but i do not understand the sixth quote.. AT ALL. the guy is pissed off because he’s having a girl baby? …why? so anyways, God doesn’t mention them being equal in some aspects… like the witness thing for example.

the site says they are not saying women are intellectually more stupid, but things “impair” their intelligence… where men’s apparently can’t get impaired. (which is SO untrue) but by saying their intelligence is capable of being impaired IS saying that they are not intellectually as capable as men.

“The Noble Verse above does not in anyway talk about women's intelligence or memory capabilities or brains. It is simply talking about the women's complete integrity. Women are by far more emotional than men. This by itself will effect the woman's ACCURACY in her witness if she is asked to explain what happened in a certain event.”

so i don’t see how you can be inaccurate just because you have emotions…?

and then it says…

“Let us see some of those facts which impairs a woman's everyday life not to mention concentration..”

and they go on to describe PMS. PMS!! argh… that does not “impair” all women’s concentration! that’s a flat out lie… even if it did affect their concentration they are only affected for ONE WEEK. but apparently the THREE WEEKS inbetween their concentration is impaired too?

and the woman on the second site says.. "These are scientific facts that are as clear as daylight and no woman can deny… Neither can any woman deny it, in favor of any kind of ideology nor philosophy! I am a woman and I admit it frankly that I suffer from psychological restlessness, bad mood, in addition to tendency to forget easily, during these times."... there are NOT scientific facts saying that PMS affects the concentration and thinking capabilities of all women. perhaps they have shown some can be "psychologically restless"... but DEFINITELY not all.

and why do they assume men’s concentration can’t possibly be “impaired”.. according to this site men don’t have as many emotions (+1 for them) and they can’t be frightened easily. so i mean OBVIOUSLY their testimony (in the witness case…) cannot be wrong! where a woman is PMSing and is not accurate. WTF. NO.

then i have a major problem with this….

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (The Noble Quran, 4:34)"

“beat them (lightly)”… why doesn’t it ever talk about the women being able to beat their husbands “lightly” if they are disloyal??

and since when is it okay to “beat them”…? that’s just stupid..

Quote: In Islam,a man being a captian,that is not superiority to me because both the husband and wife are equal before god,so it only means more responsibility to men.Thats how I view it.

i see it as yes, God thinks men and women are equal… both are capable of getting rewards and doing good things, blah, blah. but when it comes to "responsibility," it is not given to the women because she probably can't handle it (too many emotions...). also women's intelligence is capable of being "impaired," where men's are not.. i don't see the equality there because anything a woman says can be seen as inaccurate.

Quote: That is why they have been treated like animals or a mans property till very recently.Thats like 1960 years of status equal to slavery and you tell me a christian wife has got it pretty good?!

in the old testament, women are treated as lower than men, but in the new testament, Jesus makes it clear that women are not “animals” or “property”

…here… read this…

http://www.bibleufo.com/anomwomen.htm

"He taught female students.
Luke 10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

He called a woman a daughter of Abraham as equal to men.
Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

He accepted women in his inner circle.
Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, 2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, 3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

He appeared first to a woman after his resurrection.
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Women were present at Jesus' death.
Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
Mark 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; 41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Jesus repeatedly expressed concern for widows.
Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts; 47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

He ignored ritual impurity laws.
Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, 26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, 27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. 28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. 29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. 30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? 31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? 32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. 33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. 34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

He talked to foreign women.
John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jesus changes the male-favored doctrine of divorce
Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

After Jesus' resurrection,a women receives the first apostolic commission of any human.
Matthew 28:5. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before."

and women got rights before 1960. if that’s what you’re saying…

as early as the 1000’s, christian women and islamic women had about the same rights. they could divorce abusive husbands, had the right to a dowry, and they could inherit and own property. that is not treating women like “animals” or “property”.. that’d be like the Hindu women in the 1000’s (and up until the 1800’s) that had to throw themselves on their dead husbands and be burned alive! :shock:

and christian women were HARDLY “slaves”!!

also, in the 1600’s women in europe were very active in science and during the 1700’s in the enlightenment (catherine the great, mary wollstonecraft, nuns, margaret cavendish, artemesia gentileschi, maria winkelmann, etc.)

Quote: Women in Europe and the US were saved by secularism and due to the seperation of the church.

yes, in many cases, christian churches did teach that women were inferior to men. but i don’t think they were basing this off scripture (because Jesus shows that men and women are equal).

the same happened in islamic countries though too. The ones that have become more secular have given women more rights. just look at not-so-secular saudi arabia… and look at those women’s rights.. or lack of rights.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

One thing is quite clear to me: The so called God that Christians and Muslims believe in is sexist ... one more reason why organized religion is a dangerous entity, which seeks to oppress people.

[Jufarius87]

pharaoh wrote: locke25,

Quote: hmmmmm, please do show me some stuff from the qu'ran where women are treated equally. i gotta see this.


I said they are equal before God.Meaning god doesnt prefer men over women.
Ok here are some verses about women in the Koran:

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. (The Noble Quran, 33:35)"

"The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey God and His Apostle. On them will God pour His mercy: for God is Exalted in power, Wise. (The Noble Quran, 9:71)"

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

"And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of God, and from His presence is the best of rewards." (The Noble Quran, 3:195)"

"When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief! With shame does he hide himself from his people, Because of the bad news He has had! Shall he retain it On (sufferance and) contempt, Or bury it in the dust? Ah! what an evil (choice) They decide on? (The Noble Quran, 16:58-59)"

Quote: "And it is for the women to act as they (the husbands) act by them, in all fairness; but the men are a step above them." -Quran 2:228

"Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other." -Quran 4:34


Well,they only showed you a part of each verse in order to diseave you.
Read the whole verse 2:228:

2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

As you can see,the degree that a men have here is in divorce.They made it seem like in everything.There are many things were women benefite from certain things more than men.For example,in inheritance a women in many conditions inherite more than a man.In marriage a man is obliged to work and feed his family while the wife has the right to work but she is not obliged to and she may not be forced to work.

Okay now lets read the whole verse 4:34:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (The Noble Quran, 4:34)"

As i said before in Islam family is very important and it is indeed like a boat,you cant have 2 captains or the boat will sink.Okay you may refuse what I am saying but tell me arent most marriages in the US end up in divorce? Do you have any idea on how that distabilize the life of the husband and the wife and most importantly the children?
In Islam,a man being a captian,that is not superiority to me because both the husband and wife are equal before god,so it only means more responsibility to men.Thats how I view it.

As for the 2 women witnesses equals 1 man witness.
Please read this:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/two_women.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=4152

Jufarius87,

Quote: wait a minute..... there is also a verse that states that the testimony of two women is equal to that of man due to the deficience of womans brain.....


plz check out the 2 links above.

Quote: even if they are souless sex toys...... it seems kind of hypocritical..... to ask men on earth to be faithful only to their wives only so they can die and essentially cheat on her with at the least the imagess of other women and what proof have that they are souless? verse please

There can only be hapiness in heaven.There wont be hatred or sadness or envy or any other evil emotion.
Nobody will have these emotions because god will take them out of us.The point of going to heaven is to be happy forever.God will provide that in ways that is beyond your and my understanding.Heaven will be even better than your wildest dreams.
If you could understand this for starters then you might begin to understand that its no where close to cheating or something like that.

John,

Quote: The Bible tells the Christian man to love his wife like Christ loves the church. Christ DIED for us....so guess what that means. It means that a Christian wife has got it pretty good.

You THINK that christ died and you THINK that christ is your god.
Anyway,its all talk John women dont have any concrete rights in Christianity.That is why they have been treated like animals or a mans property till very recently.Thats like 1960 years of status equal to slavery and you tell me a christian wife has got it pretty good?! Yeah Riiiight.
Women in Europe and the US were saved by secularism and due to the seperation of the church.Get your facts straight John :)

if god does not play favorites with the genders does this mean women will also have the option of getting souless sex objects of the male persuasion?

wow, thats a big claim, and even if thats so, it doesnt change what the bible says about loving your wife as jesus loves the church..... people arent perfect, so obviously some or even most wont listen to what the bible says even if they are christian

jesus didnt die on the cross eh? i guess i should listen to your book thn which was written about 3 centuries+ after the new testament?

[John]

Quote: You THINK that christ died and you THINK that christ is your god.
Anyway,its all talk John women dont have any concrete rights in Christianity.That is why they have been treated like animals or a mans property till very recently.Thats like 1960 years of status equal to slavery and you tell me a christian wife has got it pretty good?! Yeah Riiiight.
Women in Europe and the US were saved by secularism and due to the seperation of the church.Get your facts straight John

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea. But when a society is truly based in Christianity (like the US in it's early history), women were treated like queens according to Christian doctrine. Back in the days when men were gentlemen and women were ladies.

[Demonic Spoon]

I THINK this is how is works in Islam, not sure, smite me if i'm wrong


The men are supposed to work, the women are supposed to take care of the home, although that is because they have different duties in the eyes of God, not because one is inferior to the othe.r


Am I right?

[Locke25]

Demonic Spoon wrote: I THINK this is how is works in Islam, not sure, smite me if i'm wrong


The men are supposed to work, the women are supposed to take care of the home, although that is because they have different duties in the eyes of God, not because one is inferior to the othe.r


Am I right?

that is what many of the muslim women's jobs were throughout history... but i'm not sure if that was because of what the qu'ran stated or just because that's what every woman's job was in history.

but now, many muslim women are getting educations and working... my guess would be that western civilization has impacted this, secularism has impacted this, or islam never really assigned that as a man's duty in the first place (so they feel it's not sinful to get real jobs..)

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Locke25 wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: I THINK this is how is works in Islam, not sure, smite me if i'm wrong


The men are supposed to work, the women are supposed to take care of the home, although that is because they have different duties in the eyes of God, not because one is inferior to the othe.r


Am I right?

that is what many of the muslim women's jobs were throughout history... but i'm not sure if that was because of what the qu'ran stated or just because that's what every woman's job was in history.

but now, many muslim women are getting educations and working... my guess would be that western civilization has impacted this, secularism has impacted this, or islam never really assigned that as a man's duty in the first place (so they feel it's not sinful to get real jobs..)

Islamic tradition is very diverse. It has 1.2 billion followers, so I advise against making general statements like that:

In Saudi Arabia, for example, the majority follow Wahabism, so they don't allow Women to even drive.
In a place like Iran, the majority is Shiite, but they allow women to work, drive, and more women graduate from universities there than men even though it is a theocratic state.

[Locke25]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Locke25 wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: I THINK this is how is works in Islam, not sure, smite me if i'm wrong


The men are supposed to work, the women are supposed to take care of the home, although that is because they have different duties in the eyes of God, not because one is inferior to the othe.r


Am I right?

that is what many of the muslim women's jobs were throughout history... but i'm not sure if that was because of what the qu'ran stated or just because that's what every woman's job was in history.

but now, many muslim women are getting educations and working... my guess would be that western civilization has impacted this, secularism has impacted this, or islam never really assigned that as a man's duty in the first place (so they feel it's not sinful to get real jobs..)

Islamic tradition is very diverse. It has 1.2 billion followers, so I advise against making general statements like that:

In Saudi Arabia, for example, the majority follow Wahabism, so they don't allow Women to even drive.
In a place like Iran, the majority is Shiite, but they allow women to work, drive, and more women graduate from universities there than men even though it is a theocratic state.

hmm, okay. you compared two theocratic states. will you compare a secular one to a theocratic one, pleeeease?

[John]

Quote: so they feel it's not sinful to get real jobs

Being a full-time mom IS a real job. One of the hardest on the planet.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Locke25 wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Locke25 wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: I THINK this is how is works in Islam, not sure, smite me if i'm wrong


The men are supposed to work, the women are supposed to take care of the home, although that is because they have different duties in the eyes of God, not because one is inferior to the othe.r


Am I right?

that is what many of the muslim women's jobs were throughout history... but i'm not sure if that was because of what the qu'ran stated or just because that's what every woman's job was in history.

but now, many muslim women are getting educations and working... my guess would be that western civilization has impacted this, secularism has impacted this, or islam never really assigned that as a man's duty in the first place (so they feel it's not sinful to get real jobs..)

Islamic tradition is very diverse. It has 1.2 billion followers, so I advise against making general statements like that:

In Saudi Arabia, for example, the majority follow Wahabism, so they don't allow Women to even drive.
In a place like Iran, the majority is Shiite, but they allow women to work, drive, and more women graduate from universities there than men even though it is a theocratic state.

hmm, okay. you compared two theocratic states. will you compare a secular one to a theocratic one, pleeeease?

I do understand what you are saying and I agree with you, but I am trying to point out that there are different sects within Islam that treat people different.

PS: I don't believe in God, so don't think that I am defending Islam or religion...

[Locke25]

John wrote: Quote: so they feel it's not sinful to get real jobs

Being a full-time mom IS a real job. One of the hardest on the planet.

haha i knew when i said "real" job someone was going to be like AHHHHh, BEING A MOM IS HARD! but in this case i was saying..

real = requiring college education vs. not so real = no college education necessary

not...

real = hard work vs not so real = not hard work

:-D