Political Crossfire Forums

F'losrix

Tell us whether you've seen TV shows like "Will & Grace", "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy", "Queer as Folk" and how accurate you think the portrayals are, what you like/dislike about what you see there. Feel free to comment on other shows or movies as well.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

The media shows gay people usually in a stereotypical way, but then again they do that all other people ... everything in the media is stereotypical to some extent.

Melchior · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 9475 Location: Palm Beach

The portrayals of homosexuals on Television are exaggerated and don't represent the majority of the gay community. Just those very obvious few. A gay friend of mind is just a bit obvious, but does not fit the stereotype. He is an avid football lover among other things.

I still like Will and Grace though... or at least Jack and Karen. :P

PrinceJunius · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:05 pm Post subject:

I hate gay shows like "Will and Grace", "Queer As Folk", and "Queer Eye." They insult me actually, and I refuse to watch them. I want to see a real homosexual in the media, not the offensive stereotypes they keep pumping out.

eXploiTeD · Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 7997

Will & Grace can be really funny.

F'losrix · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject:

PrinceJunius wrote: I want to see a real homosexual in the media, not the offensive stereotypes they keep pumping out.
So.....what is a real homosexual? How do portray that when we're as diverse in our beliefs and lifestyles as heterosexuals?

The problem isn't so much a lack of realistic portrayals as it is one of imbalance. They focus mostly on one aspect of urban gay life. We are so much more than that.

"Will & Grace" is funny mostly because it is so ridiculous. "Queer Eye" really doesn't have anything to do with gay people at all - it's just a furtherance of the myths about how stylish and well-groomed gay people are mistakenly assumed to be as a group. "Queer as Folk" focuses too much on the sex for my tastes, but otherwise comes the closest to urban gay life. That said, it's still a pretty one-sided portrayal. Where are the shows about gay people in non-promiscuous, long-term relationships, living in suburban areas and rural America? I know such people exists because I'm one of them. But you won't find people like us on TV.

When it comes to mainstream media, we're still pretty much used just for comic relief. When we aren't, it's to add drama or talk about serious issues.

What we need more of are characters that just happen to be gay, not characters where the focus is on their being gay.

PrinceJunius · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject:

Skeptical Mystic wrote:
So.....what is a real homosexual? How do portray that when we're as diverse in our beliefs and lifestyles as heterosexuals?

There are homosexuals everywhere, not just in big cities. We don't always think about sex, we're not all well-groomed, and we don't have trouble having stable relationships.

For one, I want to see a gay couple from the South. I just finished meeting a gay couple from Georgia in Ann Arbor yesterday, and they tell me that the South is not as anti-gay as it is made out to be. There is actually a fair amount of people down there who embrace homosexuals. I would be very interested in seeing something like that on TV or in the movies.

I am well aware that there are homosexuals in New York City, California, and Florida. Now, can we please focus on homosexuals elsewhere? I'd also like to see homosexuals of different races too, since we're not all Caucasian. There are plenty of African-American, Latino, Middle-Eastern, and Asian homosexuals as well.

Valdimar · Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 711 Location: San Francisco

There are many different types of homosexual people as there are heterosexual people. The media, for one, hasn't had the time to portray all types, hence the leading to stereotypes to begin with.

Geneviève · Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 668

The entertainment industry does on occasion portray gay people in a stereotypically negative light.
But then again, when watching a movie or tv show (as in real life) we must assume that any character who is not specifically portrayed as being involved with a member of the opposite sex might be gay.
If that makes any sense.
What I mean is, when watching a movie, we automatically assume that the character who is portrayed as an obnoxious flamer is THE ONLY gay character in the movie, since he's the "obvious" one.
But hell, every other character in the movie might be gay as well, and just a little more discreet about their sexual orientation.
This might not be the intent of the filmmaker, but when I think about it this way, it helps me feel less disturbed by the blatant stereotyping.
Of course, there's no such remedy for the equally offensive stereotyping of minorities and females.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

Skeptical Mystic wrote: Tell us whether you've seen TV shows like "Will & Grace", "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy", "Queer as Folk" and how accurate you think the portrayals are, what you like/dislike about what you see there. Feel free to comment on other shows or movies as well.

In order to have a good show you need a story & memerable charactres. Will & Grace is funny because of the characters & their interactions. Each character is an extreme & it is fun to watch. QEftSG is nice to watch because, if nothing else, the food suggestions (although sometimes they can be a little fru-fru IMO) & the decorating. I believe the decorating is done in good taste, as opposed to the clothing sometimes :roll:
QAF is a HORRIBLE show IMO. I have never seen it to show more than the worst side of gay life. Their characters are set & memorable, but in a negative way. In adittion, people seemed to be so into it they talked about it like it was a documentary. That annoys me no matter the show or its subject.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

PrinceJunius wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote:
So.....what is a real homosexual? How do portray that when we're as diverse in our beliefs and lifestyles as heterosexuals?

There are homosexuals everywhere, not just in big cities. We don't always think about sex, we're not all well-groomed, and we don't have trouble having stable relationships.

For one, I want to see a gay couple from the South. I just finished meeting a gay couple from Georgia in Ann Arbor yesterday, and they tell me that the South is not as anti-gay as it is made out to be. There is actually a fair amount of people down there who embrace homosexuals. I would be very interested in seeing something like that on TV or in the movies.

I am well aware that there are homosexuals in New York City, California, and Florida. Now, can we please focus on homosexuals elsewhere? I'd also like to see homosexuals of different races too, since we're not all Caucasian. There are plenty of African-American, Latino, Middle-Eastern, and Asian homosexuals as well.

While that would be nice, I doubt it would be good TV (see entertaining). Something like this would be a good documentary. As much as MTV annoys me, there is a good show called TRUE LIFE. One episode I saw (one of the few I watched) was about kids from gay parents. They took 3 or 4 couples from different parts of the country & followed them around for a couple months. Most of the kid were high school or college age. It was interesting to see how kids can be raised well with gay parents as well as being rude, obnoxious brat.

F'losrix

connermt wrote: QEftSG is nice to watch because, if nothing else, the food suggestions (although sometimes they can be a little fru-fru IMO) & the decorating. I believe the decorating is done in good taste, as opposed to the clothing sometimes :roll:
I'll agree with you about Carson's questionable taste(?) in clothes. Yech!

Edit: And I stopped watching the show a long time ago, anyway.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject:

connermt wrote: PrinceJunius wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote:
So.....what is a real homosexual? How do portray that when we're as diverse in our beliefs and lifestyles as heterosexuals?

There are homosexuals everywhere, not just in big cities. We don't always think about sex, we're not all well-groomed, and we don't have trouble having stable relationships.

For one, I want to see a gay couple from the South. I just finished meeting a gay couple from Georgia in Ann Arbor yesterday, and they tell me that the South is not as anti-gay as it is made out to be. There is actually a fair amount of people down there who embrace homosexuals. I would be very interested in seeing something like that on TV or in the movies.

I am well aware that there are homosexuals in New York City, California, and Florida. Now, can we please focus on homosexuals elsewhere? I'd also like to see homosexuals of different races too, since we're not all Caucasian. There are plenty of African-American, Latino, Middle-Eastern, and Asian homosexuals as well.

While that would be nice, I doubt it would be good TV (see entertaining). Something like this would be a good documentary.
I have to disagree. Since when did New York, California and Florida hold a patent on what is or isn't entertaining? Why couldn't a show that portrays the reality of gay people from different races also be entertaining in content?

This goes back to one of my earlier statements - I'd like to see stuff with characters who happen to be gay, in a way that helps to show the diversity of our community. Doesn't have to be all in one show. Doesn't have to be about being gay, for that matter. I hate to use this terrible cliché, but try thinking outside the box.

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

Call me Gulliable, but I think if 5 gay men want to dress well and decorate houses and be flamboyant then more power to them... I doubt many will take theirs as the example of the standard gay male anyways.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject:

Helena` wrote: Call me Gulliable, but I think if 5 gay men want to dress well and decorate houses and be flamboyant then more power to them... I doubt many will take theirs as the example of the standard gay male anyways.
I have to disagree - I think it just reinforces this specific stereotype.

Would the show be just as informative if it had a mix of gay/straight people? What does being gay really have to do with what this show is supposed to be about? Sorry, I just don't see the point unless it's an attempt to show that gay people are 'good for something'. Frankly, I'd like us to be seen as good for something besides decorating someone's home, telling them how to cook and how to dress.

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

Skeptical Mystic wrote: Helena` wrote: Call me Gulliable, but I think if 5 gay men want to dress well and decorate houses and be flamboyant then more power to them... I doubt many will take theirs as the example of the standard gay male anyways.
I have to disagree - I think it just reinforces this specific stereotype.

Would the show be just as informative if it had a mix of gay/straight people? What does being gay really have to do with what this show is supposed to be about? Sorry, I just don't see the point unless it's an attempt to show that gay people are 'good for something'. Frankly, I'd like us to be seen as good for something besides decorating someone's home, telling them how to cook and how to dress.
You have a good point, I'm really not thinking clearly today, the whole premise is acctually pretty stupid.

As for a reality tv series, the vast majority of america probably wouldn't be interested, sure, you'd have a cult following, but the show would eventually get canceled and the network will get tons of hatemail from the fans when it is.
Gay people are no more entertaining than straight people, the whole thing would be anticlimactic to many of the american idiot popoulation.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:

Helena` wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: Helena` wrote: Call me Gulliable, but I think if 5 gay men want to dress well and decorate houses and be flamboyant then more power to them... I doubt many will take theirs as the example of the standard gay male anyways.
I have to disagree - I think it just reinforces this specific stereotype.

Would the show be just as informative if it had a mix of gay/straight people? What does being gay really have to do with what this show is supposed to be about? Sorry, I just don't see the point unless it's an attempt to show that gay people are 'good for something'. Frankly, I'd like us to be seen as good for something besides decorating someone's home, telling them how to cook and how to dress.
You have a good point, I'm really not thinking clearly today, the whole premise is acctually pretty stupid.

As for a reality tv series, the vast majority of america probably wouldn't be interested, sure, you'd have a cult following, but the show would eventually get canceled and the network will get tons of hatemail from the fans when it is.
Gay people are no more entertaining than straight people, the whole thing would be anticlimactic to many of the american idiot popoulation.
I wasn't really thinking of reality programming; more along the lines of something fictional that nonetheless manages to portray the reality of our diversity. Something that doesn't put the focus on being gay but also doesn't shy away from it, either. Something that takes a matter-of-fact approach without dwelling on it.

It's a bit of a Catch 22 - gay people would like to see more of their stories portrayed, but how do you do it without making their homosexuality or some facet of it the focus of the entire thing? If it's not 'front & center', then the accusations will start from one part of the community, claiming that the producers, etc. are trying to hide it or are afraid of alienating their main audience or afraid of having their advertisers targeted by people like the American Family Association. Put it front & center, and you get complaints from another segment of the community that they're putting too much emphasis on that element, so that being gay is all the character is about. It's a delicate balance to maintain and requires some bravery from those holding the purse strings.

Kt · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3806

Skeptical Mystic wrote: Helena` wrote: Skeptical Mystic wrote: Helena` wrote: Call me Gulliable, but I think if 5 gay men want to dress well and decorate houses and be flamboyant then more power to them... I doubt many will take theirs as the example of the standard gay male anyways.
I have to disagree - I think it just reinforces this specific stereotype.

Would the show be just as informative if it had a mix of gay/straight people? What does being gay really have to do with what this show is supposed to be about? Sorry, I just don't see the point unless it's an attempt to show that gay people are 'good for something'. Frankly, I'd like us to be seen as good for something besides decorating someone's home, telling them how to cook and how to dress.
You have a good point, I'm really not thinking clearly today, the whole premise is acctually pretty stupid.

As for a reality tv series, the vast majority of america probably wouldn't be interested, sure, you'd have a cult following, but the show would eventually get canceled and the network will get tons of hatemail from the fans when it is.
Gay people are no more entertaining than straight people, the whole thing would be anticlimactic to many of the american idiot popoulation.
I wasn't really thinking of reality programming; more along the lines of something fictional that nonetheless manages to portray the reality of our diversity. Something that doesn't put the focus on being gay but also doesn't shy away from it, either. Something that takes a matter-of-fact approach without dwelling on it.

It's a bit of a Catch 22 - gay people would like to see more of their stories portrayed, but how do you do it without making their homosexuality or some facet of it the focus of the entire thing? If it's not 'front & center', then the accusations will start from one part of the community, claiming that the producers, etc. are trying to hide it or are afraid of alienating their main audience or afraid of having their advertisers targeted by people like the American Family Association. Put it front & center, and you get complaints from another segment of the community that they're putting to much emphasis on that element, so that being gay is all the character is about. It's a delicate balance to maintain and requires some bravery from those holding the purse strings.
Good point, I suppose it just is proof that you can never please everyone, and that in television you must go through the parody stage, the stereotype stage, and the front and center stage, to try and loosen the public up enough to educate them with reality.

EDIT: I have seen many shows though with homosexuality in them that was completely not the focus, not parodized or stereotyped, but was made clear that it was there, and seen as no big deal, many of these are realitytv type shows, but still.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject:

Progress is slow. Sometimes we even take several steps backward. But for now, there is at least some progress, even if it leaves us wanting something better.

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 13009 Location: upstate NY

I've made it known before that the entertainment industry is probably your worst problem. It may give you guys more media outlets and brings gay people into the realm of conversation or whatever, not trying to mean that in a negative way but all those shows you mention plus the typical gay sidekick in movies (as good as it gets) < probably one of the better portrayals that doesn't use too much stereotypical reinforcement but along those same lines.

The Entertainment industry is bringing more attention to gay people but reinforcing what is hurting your cause at the same time.