Political Crossfire Forums

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:03 am Post subject:

LDA wrote: I think it's fairly easy to see that humans evolved in a way that required a man (with a penis) to mate with a woman (with a vagina). I don't think this is a coincidence. A world with all gay men or all gay women would not be a very good world. I'm not here to stop you from doing what you will with a consenting person but I'm just going to suggest that homosexuality is not a "natural" thing. This has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting homosexuality, or being a homophobe.
I beg to differ, because quite frankly I don't see what your point is, or why it needs to be made.

Re: the whole penis/vagina thing - you're not telling us anything we don't already know. Why did it need to be brought up at all?

Homosexuality certainly isn't the norm. Whether or not it's 'natural' is open to debate. If it weren't naturally occurring, we would expect it to be unique to man and not observable in other species. The opposite is true - homosexual behavior does occur in many other species - in the wild.

To prove your argument then, you would need to be able to show that homosexuality occurs in other species only as the result of man's intervention having disturbed 'nature'. There is no proof of this

So just because it doesn't fulfill the function of reproduction, that doesn't mean it's necessarily unnatural; and even if it were, that doesn't necessarily have to mean it's a bad thing. There are plenty of 'normal' and 'natural' behaviors that I would not describe as positives. 'Normal' and 'natural' do not automatically mean 'good'.

Quote: I just think that if homosexuality was "meant to be," then two men or two woman could create a baby.
Is that the only function for which people are created? Producing more people? I like to think there's a little something more to our existance than that.

Quote: Please don't talk to me about artificial insemination or adopting, because you know what I mean. Natural child birth.
I will talk about it because it's relevant. If you aren't in favor of those things, then let's get rid of them for heterosexuals, too.

lululauren · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

Hephaestus wrote: John Galt wrote: She was pretty good looking for a lesbian

Huh? :?

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly... because pretty women couldn't be attracted to anything more than *their* penis.

That's also where the "lesbians are the pretty ones and 'dykes' are the ugly ones" came into play...

lululauren · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

I am not homosexual. I've never been attracted to another woman. However if it ever came up and I wound up being attracted to (both mentally and phsyically) another women, there would be nothing that would scare me or stop me from attempting the relationship and seeing where it went.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Soldier of Humanity wrote: if you began to feel attracted, sexually and emotionally, to some one of your same gender yet you were still attracted to members of the opposite gender in general what would you do?(assuming the person your attracted to is attracted to his/her own gender)(also assume that you are single)

I don't understand the question. What do you mean "what would you do"?

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: I'm gay and I found myself to be attracted to a lesbian on a couple of occasions. I was more attracted to the personality of these girls rather than in a sexual manner.
Or jst your brain telling you to be attracted to the right type of people

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Plodder wrote: Quote: I'm gay and I found myself to be attracted to a lesbian on a couple of occasions. I was more attracted to the personality of these girls rather than in a sexual manner.
Or jst your brain telling you to be attracted to the right type of people

Or maybe God was involved?

LDA · Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 508 Location: Raleigh, NC

lululauren wrote: Hephaestus wrote: John Galt wrote: She was pretty good looking for a lesbian

Huh? :?

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly... because pretty women couldn't be attracted to anything more than *their* penis.

That's also where the "lesbians are the pretty ones and 'dykes' are the ugly ones" came into play...

I actually known a girl since we were kids, and she's gay now, and she's very good looking. Her girlfriend is more manly than I am, though.

I'm not going to try to say that there is always a "butch" member in the relationship, however, it is fairly common. When I was in KFC and saw one woman dressed in Gap, and another dressed in leather and beat up shoes, I wasn't shocked when they kissed each other right in front of me.

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: I actually known a girl since we were kids, and she's gay now, and she's very good looking. Her girlfriend is more manly than I am, though.

She must be pretty extreme if she's more manly than Clint Eastwood.

Quote: I'm not going to try to say that there is always a "butch" member in the relationship, however, it is fairly common. When I was in KFC and saw one woman dressed in Gap, and another dressed in leather and beat up shoes, I wasn't shocked when they kissed each other right in front of me.

A friend of mine worked in a gay bar/club/restaurant thing in the UK. She said that every lesbian who'd walk in would order 'steak and chips, no vegetables'. You don't have to be manly to be attracted to women but it makes sense 'opposites attract' and all...

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

No vegetables?

Robin Hood · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 3295

Quote: No vegetables?

Yeah they were seen as too feminine...sometimes stereotypes do hold true. Still it'd be silly to apply that one instance to all people who are attracted to women and have two x chromosomes.

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 9661

Soldier of Humanity wrote: if you began to feel attracted, sexually and emotionally, to some one of your same gender yet you were still attracted to members of the opposite gender in general what would you do?(assuming the person your attracted to is attracted to his/her own gender)(also assume that you are single)

I voted other.

Most people go through a series of life stages in reaching even higher levels of maturity. Even a forty year old can be schooled, by someone a generation older, as to more wisely perceiving and responding to a situation. That's why people in their fifties, often make the better people / situation managers. With the exception of GW, who has yet to make it out of puberty.

Human sexuality is a very fluid concept. It's perfectly normal for a person to occassionally have a dream about a same sex encounter. When I say occassionally, I mean once or twice in one's life...for some it's more.

That experience, or feeling an attraction to an individual of the same sex at some point in life. Is no indication of preference what so ever.

Some people act on those impulses, and get themselves really confused.

I say it's best to take it in stride, and accept the experience of being human as perfectly normal. If an individual is 80 percent attracted to the same sex, now that's a different story. They should definately pursue the company of others, who have the same orientation.

Me? I think people are beautiful, but if I were attracted to someone of the same sex for even one moment. I sure as hell wouldn't act on it. But, I might laugh at myself...in recognition of my own humanity.

Æ · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 5103

Sailor Moon wrote: I only kissed like 3 girls and that was hardly kissing in the first place, and just to see if I liked it. I do like to kiss girls, but not french kissing. I didnt french any other girls, except my ex best friend, who proclaimed she was bi and she kissed me, for real.. I felt bad about it but I figured why not experiment a little and kiss back for real. Then she later, like a month later wanted to have sex. It was so stupid cause I had to drink a few just to even do it.

It was an experiment on how attracted I was to the same sex. I am VERY attracted to women, but believe me, sex is just out of the question. It was very uncomfortable and just didnt do anything for me. Even the small pleasure it brought was not worth it. I dont want to get used to that. Its not real sex. Real sex is between a man and a woman. And the two of us had "man" issues at the time, as well, since we both had recent break ups, so it explains alot.

That doesnt change my turn ons. I get off still on watching lesbian sex. I just cant do it, myself. Its unnatural. And just because someone has experiences something doesnt make them bi. Thats ridiculous. LOL!
Being straight/gay/bisexual or whatever is not a choice. Acting on it is.

It's true that just because someone has a same sex relationship doesn't necessarily make them gay/bi. One way or the other however, one should be honest with himself. If you have experienced erotic urges towards members of the same sex on multiple occasions, regardless of whether you consider those acts unnatural, you are most likely gay/bi.

Sage Orator · Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 334

Liberty4All wrote: Sailor Moon wrote: I only kissed like 3 girls and that was hardly kissing in the first place, and just to see if I liked it. I do like to kiss girls, but not french kissing. I didnt french any other girls, except my ex best friend, who proclaimed she was bi and she kissed me, for real.. I felt bad about it but I figured why not experiment a little and kiss back for real. Then she later, like a month later wanted to have sex. It was so stupid cause I had to drink a few just to even do it.

It was an experiment on how attracted I was to the same sex. I am VERY attracted to women, but believe me, sex is just out of the question. It was very uncomfortable and just didnt do anything for me. Even the small pleasure it brought was not worth it. I dont want to get used to that. Its not real sex. Real sex is between a man and a woman. And the two of us had "man" issues at the time, as well, since we both had recent break ups, so it explains alot.

That doesnt change my turn ons. I get off still on watching lesbian sex. I just cant do it, myself. Its unnatural. And just because someone has experiences something doesnt make them bi. Thats ridiculous. LOL!
Being straight/gay/bisexual or whatever is not a choice. Acting on it is.

It's true that just because someone has a same sex relationship doesn't necessarily make them gay/bi. One way or the other however, one should be honest with himself. If you have experienced erotic urges towards members of the same sex on multiple occasions, regardless of whether you consider those acts unnatural, you are most likely gay/bi.
:clap: I completely agree about your points.

This is proven by the people that act like homosexuals or have tried having sex with the same gender and have been "cured" by psychiatrists. These make up very few of the homosexual community but there have been studies showing that people will experiment but that does not mean they are homosexuals. These people are probably those "cured" along with those going against the way they are, as have many homosexuals such as the gay bishop.

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 9661

I'm seeing some very well made, and what I consider to be accurate points in the post above. One of my debate topics in High School, was Sex Education, and I took the opportunity to explore it from many aspects. Arguing that same sex attraction, as a normal growth stage in human development should be taught as part of the curriculum.

If the subject were approached correctly, I believe it spare a lot of young men and women...who shall we say? Momentarily acted on impulse, a lot of confusion and shame. In many Arabic societies, children are not allowed to sleep in the same beds if they are visiting. I'd like to believe that paticular cultural nuiance has some wisdom behind it.

And I agree with one of the posters, that the allegedly cured homosexual...is one who in reality wasn't truly homosexual in the first place at all.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

lululauren wrote: Hephaestus wrote: John Galt wrote: She was pretty good looking for a lesbian

Huh? :?

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly... because pretty women couldn't be attracted to anything more than *their* penis.

That's also where the "lesbians are the pretty ones and 'dykes' are the ugly ones" came into play...

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly <--- I don't know - I went to a lesbian bar once (great music & very clean BTW) & 95% of the lesbians there were unbelievably hot! Almost made me want to be a lesbian myself. (And just because I am gay doesn't mean I can't appreciate a good looking woman!)

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 12761 Location: upstate NY

connermt wrote: lululauren wrote: Hephaestus wrote: John Galt wrote: She was pretty good looking for a lesbian

Huh? :?

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly... because pretty women couldn't be attracted to anything more than *their* penis.

That's also where the "lesbians are the pretty ones and 'dykes' are the ugly ones" came into play...

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly <--- I don't know - I went to a lesbian bar once (great music & very clean BTW) & 95% of the lesbians there were unbelievably hot! Almost made me want to be a lesbian myself. (And just because I am gay doesn't mean I can't appreciate a good looking woman!) My ex sister in law is a lesbian. She is out and accepted by her family. I have been to a couple of parties thrown by one of her firends. Most of the lesbians there were more of the stereotypical non feminine ones. Not all but most. I think even in the gay community people tend to hang around similar types of people. Just like with straight people, you don't see red necks and metro urban types mingling much. I would imagine there is a truth in this with gay people as well.

F'losrix · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject:

00timh wrote: connermt wrote: lululauren wrote: Hephaestus wrote: John Galt wrote: She was pretty good looking for a lesbian

Huh? :?

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly... because pretty women couldn't be attracted to anything more than *their* penis.

That's also where the "lesbians are the pretty ones and 'dykes' are the ugly ones" came into play...

Most men tend to think that lesbians are all ugly <--- I don't know - I went to a lesbian bar once (great music & very clean BTW) & 95% of the lesbians there were unbelievably hot! Almost made me want to be a lesbian myself. (And just because I am gay doesn't mean I can't appreciate a good looking woman!) My ex sister in law is a lesbian. She is out and accepted by her family. I have been to a couple of parties thrown by one of her firends. Most of the lesbians there were more of the stereotypical non feminine ones. Not all but most. I think even in the gay community people tend to hang around similar types of people. Just like with straight people, you don't see red necks and metro urban types mingling much. I would imagine there is a truth in this with gay people as well.
To some extent, I'm inclined to agree. The more butch types hang out with other butch types and the more fem types hang out with other fem types (and this goes for both lesbians and gay men). But there are plenty of people in the middle who somewhat bridge the gap.