Political Crossfire Forums

Jay2014 · Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 1243

im a sociology major, and, i dont know what the accepted definition of homophobia is by the LGBT community, but in sociology homophobia is a fear of being percieved to be homosexual. i read an interesting article in one of my soc. classes about masculinity as a mechinism of the homophobic to assert their heterosexuality to society. for example, it viewed the use of terms for female genetalia as insults as a way of asserting heterosexuality for oneself, while at the same time attacking the masculinity (and thereby the heterosexuality) of the person recieving the insults. any thoughts on this?

Jay2014 · Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 1243

by the way, i happen to agree with much of this logic.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 7106 Location: Ohio

The most idiotic insults ever are the ones targeting your masculinity. For instance, I automatically ignore anyone who calls me or anyone else a f** or a pu**y. Why?

f** is just stupid, your assuming you know the sexual orientation of the person, and then your assuming that to be bad.

And pu**y is used usually when you try and avoid conflict (AKA being intelligent)

A lot of guys today are obsessed with their masculinity. Anything un-masculine is a threat (other than women).

This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Protostar · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:49 am Post subject:

Demonic Spoon wrote: This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Now, now we all know why guys tolerate lesbians more than gay men 8)

But seriously, I agree with this. I can talk to a lesbian much like I can to any other straight guy. I can have conversations with them about how attractive other females are and they agree with me. I can say "Man, I would bang the hell out of that b****" and the lesbian will usually say "yeah me too". I think its just about similar interests.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Protostar wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Now, now we all know why guys tolerate lesbians more than gay men 8)

But seriously, I agree with this. I can talk to a lesbian much like I can to any other straight guy. I can have conversations with them about how attractive other females are and they agree with me. I can say "Man, I would bang the hell out of that b****" and the lesbian will usually say "yeah me too". I think its just about similar interests.

would you have a problem talking to a straight-appearing gay man about similar interests?

Protostar · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:02 am Post subject:

StrangerWitCandy wrote: Protostar wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Now, now we all know why guys tolerate lesbians more than gay men 8)

But seriously, I agree with this. I can talk to a lesbian much like I can to any other straight guy. I can have conversations with them about how attractive other females are and they agree with me. I can say "Man, I would bang the hell out of that b****" and the lesbian will usually say "yeah me too". I think its just about similar interests.

would you have a problem talking to a straight-appearing gay man about similar interests?

I can't figure out if this was intended to be an insult (an underhanded attack on my sexuality) or what. I was talking about similar sexual interest, and I would not have any similar sexual interest with a gay man. Now, if he held conservative views similar to mine then a conversation would be possible.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Protostar wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Protostar wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Now, now we all know why guys tolerate lesbians more than gay men 8)

But seriously, I agree with this. I can talk to a lesbian much like I can to any other straight guy. I can have conversations with them about how attractive other females are and they agree with me. I can say "Man, I would bang the hell out of that b****" and the lesbian will usually say "yeah me too". I think its just about similar interests.

would you have a problem talking to a straight-appearing gay man about similar interests?

I can't figure out if this was intended to be an insult (an underhanded attack on my sexuality) or what. I was talking about similar sexual interest, and I would not have any similar sexual interest with a gay man. Now, if he held conservative views similar to mine then a conversation would be possible.

it was a question, not an insult. but just so you know, even gay people know a hot girl when they see one, even if they don't want to 'bang' her. obviously you wouldn't want to talk about how they feel about guys, since that would probably be too 'icky'. but i was just trying to see if you were only open to talking to lesbians who share similar interests or gay men as well. some straight men would never think of talking to a gay guy from fear of losing some sort of masculinity themselves merely by doing it

Protostar · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:21 am Post subject:

StrangerWitCandy wrote: Protostar wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Protostar wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Now, now we all know why guys tolerate lesbians more than gay men 8)

But seriously, I agree with this. I can talk to a lesbian much like I can to any other straight guy. I can have conversations with them about how attractive other females are and they agree with me. I can say "Man, I would bang the hell out of that b****" and the lesbian will usually say "yeah me too". I think its just about similar interests.

would you have a problem talking to a straight-appearing gay man about similar interests?

I can't figure out if this was intended to be an insult (an underhanded attack on my sexuality) or what. I was talking about similar sexual interest, and I would not have any similar sexual interest with a gay man. Now, if he held conservative views similar to mine then a conversation would be possible.

it was a question, not an insult. but just so you know, even gay people know a hot girl when they see one, even if they don't want to 'bang' her. obviously you wouldn't want to talk about how they feel about guys, since that would probably be too 'icky'. but i was just trying to see if you were only open to talking to lesbians who share similar interests or gay men as well. some straight men would never think of talking to a gay guy from fear of losing some sort of masculinity themselves merely by doing it

Not a fear. Just talking to a gay guy about other men would to me be disgusting. It just would be "right". To me that would be on the level of talking to someone about their attractions to children or animals.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 7106 Location: Ohio

You can't talk to someone without bringing up a sexual conversation?

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Protostar wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Protostar wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Protostar wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: This is generally why that many guys tolerate and respect lesbians, but not gay men.

Now, now we all know why guys tolerate lesbians more than gay men 8)

But seriously, I agree with this. I can talk to a lesbian much like I can to any other straight guy. I can have conversations with them about how attractive other females are and they agree with me. I can say "Man, I would bang the hell out of that b****" and the lesbian will usually say "yeah me too". I think its just about similar interests.

would you have a problem talking to a straight-appearing gay man about similar interests?

I can't figure out if this was intended to be an insult (an underhanded attack on my sexuality) or what. I was talking about similar sexual interest, and I would not have any similar sexual interest with a gay man. Now, if he held conservative views similar to mine then a conversation would be possible.

it was a question, not an insult. but just so you know, even gay people know a hot girl when they see one, even if they don't want to 'bang' her. obviously you wouldn't want to talk about how they feel about guys, since that would probably be too 'icky'. but i was just trying to see if you were only open to talking to lesbians who share similar interests or gay men as well. some straight men would never think of talking to a gay guy from fear of losing some sort of masculinity themselves merely by doing it

Not a fear. Just talking to a gay guy about other men would to me be disgusting. It just would be "right". To me that would be on the level of talking to someone about their attractions to children or animals.

but with a lesbian its okay because you both like women? but why would you want to talk to a woman who you morally equate with pedophiles and animal f*ckers? so if you were a straight woman, you would have no problem talking to gay men about hot guys but never lesbians because its "not right" and they're practically child molesters?

what is it that makes it more acceptable for a woman to be gay than a man?

Protostar · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:28 am Post subject:

Demonic Spoon wrote: You can't talk to someone without bringing up a sexual conversation?

Of course I can! But that's not what he was saying (at least I don't think so). The point I was making was that most guys wouldn't feel comforatble talking to gay guys about their sexual interest because they are so much different than their own. I feel much more comfortable talking to a lesbian as opposed to a gay guy, because our sexual interest are pretty much the same.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:35 am Post subject:

I think the misuse of the word 'homophobic' to describe anyone opposed to homosexuality has become a real hindrance to getting people to acknowledge real instances of it.

I think the overriding perception in much of the gay community is that all dislike for gay people stems from homophobia. I'd agree that a lot of it does - but not necessarily all.

It certainly isn't productive to use it as a slur or to be dismissive of someone's opinion. Telling someone they're homophobic will do little to make them examine the existance of that fear in themselves - especially since a lot of that fear is at the subconscious level. It's more often viewed as namecalling and it just makes people angry - it does nothing to persuade them that they may have an invalid opinion or view of homosexuals.

Lord Hargreaves · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 7259 Location: Herefordshire

whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Plus homophobia is such a stupid term, do you really think opponents of the gay rights brigade fear gay people? Screaming homophobia is like screaming "racist" over concerns about affirmative action or immigration or "sexism" to concerns of women in the military - they're just a lefty mechanism to shut down legitimate debate. To me, when a gay person cried homophobia, thats a clear a sign as any that they just lost the argument 8)

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Plus homophobia is such a stupid term, do you really think opponents of the gay rights brigade fear gay people? Screaming homophobia is like screaming "racist" over concerns about affirmative action or immigration or "sexism" to concerns of women in the military - they're just a lefty mechanism to shut down legitimate debate. To me, when a gay person cried homophobia, thats a clear a sign as any that they just lost the argument 8)

i haven't shoved my sexuality down anyone's throat. tell me how i have done so. merely by being with my boyfriend? and people misuse the terms 'racism' and 'homophobia' often, but it does not mean those things don't exist. many racists back in the day claimed they were not racist, even when they certainly were. merely ignoring the existence of bigotry might make you feel better but it is not at all realistic. homophobia exists prominently in this country, i've witnessed it over and over again first hand

interesting you haven't addressed the topic of the thread, which is homophobia as it relates to one's percieved masculinity, and instead jumped right to attacking gays for "shoving their sexuality down society's throat"

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

soldierofchrist wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Plus homophobia is such a stupid term, do you really think opponents of the gay rights brigade fear gay people? Screaming homophobia is like screaming "racist" over concerns about affirmative action or immigration or "sexism" to concerns of women in the military - they're just a lefty mechanism to shut down legitimate debate. To me, when a gay person cried homophobia, thats a clear a sign as any that they just lost the argument 8)

i haven't shoved my sexuality down anyone's throat. tell me how i have done so. merely by being with my boyfriend? and people misuse the terms 'racism' and 'homophobia' often, but it does not mean those things don't exist. many racists back in the day claimed they were not racist, even when they certainly were. merely ignoring the existence of bigotry might make you feel better but it is not at all realistic. homophobia exists prominently in this country, i've witnessed it over and over again first hand

interesting you haven't addressed the topic of the thread, which is homophobia as it relates to one's percieved masculinity, and instead jumped right to attacking gays for "shoving their sexuality down society's throat"
You personally have not, and that's not what he meant. He meant the gay society as a whole, has shoved their sexuality down the rest of society's throat. Have you ever seen those gay pride parades? The way they dress and act is outrageous. And if straight people were doing some of the stuff they do at those parades, they'd be jailed immediately. And I believe that the more masculine someone tries to act, the less secure they are with themselves. Now, that's not to say that all masculine guys are really just insecure. People like John Wayne, or Tommy Lee Jones are just naturally really masculine.

i agree with just about everything you said. the only thing is that you can't generalize with those parades. many gays like me and my boyfriend don't like them and wouldn't attend one. I understand why they came to exist in the first place, but the message has become overshadowed with flaming, barely-dressed men covered in glitter. and that frankly is upsetting, not that i have a huge problem with those kind of people (to each his own I guess) but i just don't think it really is representative of the true homosexual population. many gays are normal people wanting to live normal lives, only with the person they love who happens to be of the same sex. and thats pretty much it, from there on everything else is pretty much the same

Melchior · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 9667 Location: Palm Beach

Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Sorry but this just doesn't happen, not anymore than heterosexuals do. If Will and Grace is on TV, just change the channel and watch the Man Show. :wink:

Lord Hargreaves · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 7259 Location: Herefordshire

StrangerWitCandy wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Plus homophobia is such a stupid term, do you really think opponents of the gay rights brigade fear gay people? Screaming homophobia is like screaming "racist" over concerns about affirmative action or immigration or "sexism" to concerns of women in the military - they're just a lefty mechanism to shut down legitimate debate. To me, when a gay person cried homophobia, thats a clear a sign as any that they just lost the argument 8)

i haven't shoved my sexuality down anyone's throat. tell me how i have done so.

I didn't even know you'd posted in this thread, I wasn't talking to you. I was dealing in generalisation.

StrangerWitCandy wrote: merely by being with my boyfriend? and people misuse the terms 'racism' and 'homophobia' often, but it does not mean those things don't exist. many racists back in the day claimed they were not racist, even when they certainly were. merely ignoring the existence of bigotry might make you feel better but it is not at all realistic. homophobia exists prominently in this country, i've witnessed it over and over again first hand

Yes it exists but its way, way overhyped, anyone who dares to stare a bit longer at a gay person than a straight person is deemed "homophobic". Its mainly just a ploy for political gain.

StrangerWitCandy wrote: interesting you haven't addressed the topic of the thread, which is homophobia as it relates to one's percieved masculinity, and instead jumped right to attacking gays for "shoving their sexuality down society's throat"

People may insult gay people to make fun of them, if you start social analysing it the obvious will escape you. You are a minority, thus you a different in some way, either except this or protest it - don't go round in gay parades then moan when people think you are strange, its the height of hypocrisy.

Gay people, and minorities in general, are so sensitive that the slightest remark can cause huge anger - thus they are prime targets for people who enjoy banter and getting a reaction

SavannahMan · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 1307

Melchior wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Sorry but this just doesn't happen, not anymore than heterosexuals do. If Will and Grace is on TV, just change the channel and watch the Man Show. :wink:

Apparently you have no idea what is happening in the public schools then.

When talking about the gay community shoving their sexuality down societies throat we are really talking about them trying to gain (or force) acceptance of their sexuality - heterosexuals dont need to do this.

PrinceJunius · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject:

Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

You know, I remember doing a project for school where I counted how many straight people shoved their sexuality down my throat in a single day. I counted about 200 instances.

Melchior · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 9667 Location: Palm Beach

SavannahMan wrote: Melchior wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: whats the complication over this? If the gay community stopped shoving their sexuality down society's throat there'd be a lot less "homophobia" as a reaction.

Sorry but this just doesn't happen, not anymore than heterosexuals do. If Will and Grace is on TV, just change the channel and watch the Man Show. :wink:

Apparently you have no idea what is happening in the public schools then.

When talking about the gay community shoving their sexuality down societies throat we are really talking about them trying to gain (or force) acceptance of their sexuality - heterosexuals dont need to do this.

It's mainstream society that tries to shove their conformist culture down our throat.

I don't recall any heterosexual teenagers getting their ass kicked by homosexual teenagers because of their sexual oreintation.

No one is forcing you to have gay sex, there is no gay agenda. People just want to be left alone and have the same privacy rights as anyone else.