Political Crossfire Forums

MrVicchio · Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 970 Location: New England...

Where do they stand in society?

I'm just curious as to ya'lls thought on this one.

d357r0y3r · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 539

I guess anyone can be anything they want, in todays age.

revolution_reversal · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:22 am Post subject:

don't foget it. :twisted:

PrinceJunius · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:40 am Post subject:

Any thoughts?

Transgendered people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Doesn't get anymore simple than that.

d357r0y3r · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 539

PrinceJunius wrote: Any thoughts?

Transgendered people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Doesn't get anymore simple than that.

They get the same rights - what's the problem? My perception of the original post was that he was asking where do they stand in society, IE, do people in society accept them. Someone would like to force acceptance upon everyone, but it's just not going to happen.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

d357r0y3r wrote: PrinceJunius wrote: Any thoughts?

Transgendered people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Doesn't get anymore simple than that.

They get the same rights - what's the problem? My perception of the original post was that he was asking where do they stand in society, IE, do people in society accept them. Someone would like to force acceptance upon everyone, but it's just not going to happen.

I think some people are scared of them, but I don't know why!

revolution_reversal · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:26 am Post subject:

pansexuality is the way of the future get used to it.

MrVicchio · Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 970 Location: New England...

d357r0y3r wrote: PrinceJunius wrote: Any thoughts?

Transgendered people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Doesn't get anymore simple than that.

They get the same rights - what's the problem? My perception of the original post was that he was asking where do they stand in society, IE, do people in society accept them. Someone would like to force acceptance upon everyone, but it's just not going to happen.

This is about what I was intedning yes.

What's thier role? In Texas a judge ruled a Post-Op MTF could not marry a man because genetically she is a man.

Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like, that won't change over night.

I was just seeing what people here thought, that sort of thing.

SavannahMan · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 1307

MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like.

That about sums it up for me - although I think mental disorders play a large part also.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like, that won't change over night.

I was just seeing what people here thought, that sort of thing.

it'll be a great day when society is truly able to judge a person solely on the content of their character and nothing else.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

SavannahMan wrote: MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like.

That about sums it up for me - although I think mental disorders play a large part also.

Yea i think mental problems also play a big part in homophobia.

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7392 Location: Colorado

MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like, that won't change over night.

There is nothing wrong with that, well let me rephrase. There is nothing anyone can do to force people to change their minds. At the same accord, people can marry whomever they want (assuming they are of legal age) and people don't have the power to stop them. But it is a free country, so people can think and say what they want.

SavannahMan · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 1307

ikari wrote: MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like, that won't change over night.

There is nothing wrong with that, well let me rephrase. There is nothing anyone can do to force people to change their minds. At the same accord, people can marry whomever they want (assuming they are of legal age) and people don't have the power to stop them. But it is a free country, so people can think and say what they want.

Amen.

Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:26 am Post subject:

SavannahMan wrote: ikari wrote: MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like, that won't change over night.

There is nothing wrong with that, well let me rephrase. There is nothing anyone can do to force people to change their minds. At the same accord, people can marry whomever they want (assuming they are of legal age) and people don't have the power to stop them. But it is a free country, so people can think and say what they want.

Amen.

Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

Do I think the word 'homophobe' tends to be misused? Yes.

Does that mean I think you don't deserve the negative stigma for holding the opinion that you do? No, I think you deserve it plenty.

You're entitled to your opinion. We're likewise entitled to hold no esteem for that opinion and to portray you in a negative light for holding on to it. Heaven knows gay people have been stigmatized for their perceived 'immorality' long enough - why shouldn't we retaliate and point out all the things we think are wrong with your arguments against us?

If that hurts your feelings, tough. I'm not here to make you feel better about yourself.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

SavannahMan wrote: ikari wrote: MrVicchio wrote: Many people see Trans as freaks, wierdos and the like, that won't change over night.

There is nothing wrong with that, well let me rephrase. There is nothing anyone can do to force people to change their minds. At the same accord, people can marry whomever they want (assuming they are of legal age) and people don't have the power to stop them. But it is a free country, so people can think and say what they want.

Amen.

Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

naturally people would like to be accepted. that is a natural desire for anyone, especially if they feel they are doing no wrong. but i realize it is impossible for anyone to be accepted by everyone. therefore i don't expect acceptance. but i will do my part to try and mitigate what i see as an abundance of ignorance about homosexuality in this country and hope that some along the way realize there is no reason to hate on someone merely because of their sexual orientation. i view baseless hate towards people as immoral and self-destructive behavior and i will do my best to try and minimize its occurance in the country of which i was born and raised

F'losrix · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:36 am Post subject:

I personally think our society is way too hung up on gender issues. If someone wants to have the surgery to cosmetically change their gender to fit the way they feel inside, fine. Since I don't think there should be a gender restriction on marriage to begin with, the subject of whether the government should treat them according to their gender at birth versus the reassigned gender is somewhat moot until you provide me with other concrete issues to discuss in relation to it. I'm inclined to think a person should be treated according to whatever gender they identify with - including not being forced to pick one at all if they're intersexed.

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7392 Location: Colorado

SavannahMan wrote: Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

To clarify, I don't care if people are gay, straight, transgendered, or whatever. I don't view this as wrong or evil, I just don't care. I don't like talking of "gay rights" or any other sort of specific right, cause those don't exist. There are only rights, rights are not limited to certain groups, everyone has that. If a certain group is being prevented from exercising their rights (in the case of same sex marriage, people's unlimited right to contract is being infringed upon), they must fight and cause a lot of noise till their rights are upheld, but it's not any sort of special right. At the same time, you can not force people to like it, or to accept it. If people want to be jerks, they can be jerks. If they want to say rude and mean things, they can say rude and mean things. What they can not do is stop the exercise of rights, that's where the line is drawn.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 5739 Location: Fairfax, VA

ikari wrote: SavannahMan wrote: Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

To clarify, I don't care if people are gay, straight, transgendered, or whatever. I don't view this as wrong or evil, I just don't care. I don't like talking of "gay rights" or any other sort of specific right, cause those don't exist. There are only rights, rights are not limited to certain groups, everyone has that. If a certain group is being prevented from exercising their rights (in the case of same sex marriage, people's unlimited right to contract is being infringed upon), they must fight and cause a lot of noise till their rights are upheld, but it's not any sort of special right. At the same time, you can not force people to like it, or to accept it. If people want to be jerks, they can be jerks. If they want to say rude and mean things, they can say rude and mean things. What they can not do is stop the exercise of rights, that's where the line is drawn.

:clap:

SavannahMan · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 1307

ikari wrote: SavannahMan wrote: Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

To clarify, I don't care if people are gay, straight, transgendered, or whatever. I don't view this as wrong or evil, I just don't care. I don't like talking of "gay rights" or any other sort of specific right, cause those don't exist. There are only rights, rights are not limited to certain groups, everyone has that. If a certain group is being prevented from exercising their rights (in the case of same sex marriage, people's unlimited right to contract is being infringed upon), they must fight and cause a lot of noise till their rights are upheld, but it's not any sort of special right. At the same time, you can not force people to like it, or to accept it. If people want to be jerks, they can be jerks. If they want to say rude and mean things, they can say rude and mean things. What they can not do is stop the exercise of rights, that's where the line is drawn.

Agreed - and if marrying anyone you choose to marry was a RIGHT then everyone would be entitled to it - but it isn't a right, never has been.

Jay2014 · Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 1243

SavannahMan wrote: ikari wrote: SavannahMan wrote: Unfortunately it appears many sexual deviants have a deep seeded desire for acceptance from everyone. My personal opinion is that this stems from the fact that they know their immorality is wrong but if everyone "accepts" their deviancy that it makes it "right".

Labeling anyone who refuses to accept their immorality as "normal" and "okay" as a "homophobe" is simply a transparent attempt to attach a negative stigma on people who aren't afraid to say that they wont find "acceptance" for immoral and self-destructive behavior.

To clarify, I don't care if people are gay, straight, transgendered, or whatever. I don't view this as wrong or evil, I just don't care. I don't like talking of "gay rights" or any other sort of specific right, cause those don't exist. There are only rights, rights are not limited to certain groups, everyone has that. If a certain group is being prevented from exercising their rights (in the case of same sex marriage, people's unlimited right to contract is being infringed upon), they must fight and cause a lot of noise till their rights are upheld, but it's not any sort of special right. At the same time, you can not force people to like it, or to accept it. If people want to be jerks, they can be jerks. If they want to say rude and mean things, they can say rude and mean things. What they can not do is stop the exercise of rights, that's where the line is drawn.

Agreed - and if marrying anyone you choose to marry was a RIGHT then everyone would be entitled to it - but it isn't a right, never has been.

but, as ikari pointed out, it has to do with the right to unlimited contract. there are no gay rights, no straight rights, but there are rights that apply to us all. this is one of them, and we are currently preventing the homosexual community from exercising this right for our own selfish reasons.