Political Crossfire Forums

[Pimpkie_69]

Why are people even debating this issue? It's so one sided it isn't even funny. Anyone against marijuana legalization is a complete hypocrate, it's as simple as that. Someone who is anti-legalization give me ONE good reason why it shouldn't be legal but alcohol and cigs should be.

[Norrin Radd]

mathurin wrote: and i totally agree that it should be legal, i just want DARE to keep on telling folks its dangerous

you believe your side, i dont believe either side, so i want to do a cautious legalization because only a real world legalization in america will show the real effects on america, YOU ARE GETTING WHAT YOU WANT, LEGAL MARIJUANA

if, after 20 or 40 years, we find that there really arent any harmful effects of marijuana then we can quit with the propaganda
you assume you know all about it because you have read some studies which make marijuana look like its nearly harmless, and you call the other side idiots because they have looked at articles which make it look like the devil itself, you call me close minded because i dont belive your side, i call you close minded because you refuse to admit that your side might be lying just as badly, watch a micheal moore movie or watch fox news, you will know what i mean, everybody lies, and the internet is possibly the worst place to get information about this kind of controversial issue. so i just want to diminish the damage if i does turn out to be harmful, which is exactly what we started doing on smoking and alcohol _after_ we realized how dangerous they are, maybe we should start with the idea that marijuana is somewhat dangerous until we know for sure, because we started with the thought that alcohol and tobacco were safe, millions have suffered because of that position, what do i know for sure, i know that all drugs no matter how small have side effects, some are acceptable some are not, but we wont know about the cumulative effects of marijuana usage until someone lights up everynight for 20 years, just like the alcoholics who drink every night
if a kid drinks his way through college there is little long term damage, it takes a great deal of time

and do not forget that much of the "information" about alcohol and tobacco is horribly off, they lie about it just as they lie about marijuana

as to hemp, the countries that do allow hemp production and ban marijuana usually have regulations on the hemp production, germany and canada are who i read about, the person must not have had a drug charge (i think one said in ten years) to get a liscense and the gov comes out and does testing on random plants, so i guess they think there is a danger of hiding marijuana in hemp production

derEikopf: i know exactly what you mean, and agree that all illegal drugs should be legalized on a individual basis (some you really dont want out there) this debate is still going on because i think both sides of the debate lie, and want DARE programs to continue to demonize the substances until we really know for sure, quite simply because nobody was ever harmed because they didnt use recreational drugs, but many people have been harmed by other currently legal substances which they thought were pretty harmless
also, the gov tells you how to live your life everyday, so dont start on that

a word on alcohol and tobacco illegalization
people love to point to gov anti-smoking propaganda and say how harmful tobacco is, same with alcohol, dont you realize they do the same thing they do to marijuana, overstate the danger. still, its harmful, so why arent the 2 illegal, its simple, they are integrated totally into our society, everyone accepts their use more or less. or at least did, but if you have noticed the recent shift in opinion, i would bet that within 30 years alcohol and tobacco will be banned or at least heavily controlled, then what will you compare your marijuana too?

franz, i think they are less worried about the lung hazard than the mental ability hazard, still, if someone wants to run a risk with their mind for fun i will not stop them, i just want them to know they are taking a risk, and that i will not bail them out

and i still want marijuana legalized (bottom line statement, back by popular demand)

Look, you seem like a good person, but you really don't get it.

You said..........

"but we wont know about the cumulative effects of marijuana usage until someone lights up everynight for 20 years, just like the alcoholics who drink every night"

There have been people smoking pot every day for 40 years, even longer.

The only major health problem is bronchitis in the heaviest users.

Things like low sperm count are possible, but it didn't seem to hamper the many people I know who smoke pot and have kids.

Hashish, which has the same active ingredient as pot, THC, has been used since the 1800's in Europe and much earlier in other parts of the world.

More people use marijauna than all other illicit drugs combined and there have been everyday users in America since the 1960's.

I listed numerous studies which show that marijuana does not cause any significant health problems.

Not only did you not bother to look into any of this information, you immediately assumed these studies were flawed because you do not agree with their findings.

This is closed minded.

From 1916 to 1919 the ARMY conducted an investigation of marijuana use in the Panama canal zone. In it's report to the Militray Surgeon in 1933, the report stated..........

"it is not possible to demonstrate any evidence of mental or physical detrerioration in the users."

In 1972 the Canadian government issues a report by the Le Dain commission. It only listed respiratory ailments as a health risk among heavy users and still said this risk was less than for tobacco.

The 1972 report by the National Commission on Marijuana found only brochitis was the only proven health risk. 9 of the thirteen members of the committee were selected by President Nixon, but he ignored the study, as it did not give the results he was hoping for. Just like you ignore this information because you don't like the results.

Until you are willing to do your own research, you will continue to have an opinion which is based on lies and half truths.

[mathurin]

only one thing, what harm can come, real physical harm, from saying a substance is worse than it might be, that is all i ask

and i still want it legalized

[Norrin Radd]

mathurin wrote: only one thing, what harm can come, real physical harm, from saying a substance is worse than it might be, that is all i ask

and i still want it legalized

A fair question.

O.K., let's say you are a teenager who has never smoked pot and believe it is very bad for you.

Now, let's say you try pot, and you see how mild it is. Now, let's say you smoke pot for a while and meet tons of people who have smoked pot for years and lead totally normal, productive lives. Now, since you would realize that what you were told about pot was all lies, you might be more willing to try harder drugs because if the "establishment" lied about pot, maybe they were lying about coke, crack, meth, whatever.

I believe nothing is more important than the truth. I do not want to be lied to in order to protect me. I want to know the whole truth, as how can I form opinions on any subject, if I do not have the truth? How can I make good decisions, if I do not have the facts?

Lying breeds disrespect. How can I respect the the law, when those who make the laws also break them? KNow how many Congressmen have admitted to doing drugs? What about Rush Limbaugh? What about Jeb Bush's daughter? Remember what she did and her punishment? If you do not remember, she was caught forging a prescription. While in rehab, she was caught with prescription drugs from the center, resulting in 3 days of jail. When she returned to rehab, she was then caught with with crack, or cocaine. Lucky for her, she is not a poor black kid, or hispanic kid.

Have you read any examples of Congressmen's kids who were busted with drugs and their lenient sentences?

I urge you to read a few examples.........

(This one really makes me sick)

http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/10/1008.html

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MORE EXAMPLES........

TODD CUNNINGHAM--SON OF U.S. REP. RANDY "DUKE" CUNNINGHAM (R-CA): In Boston, Todd Cunningham, 29, was sentenced on November 17 to 2-1/2 years in federal prison for marijuana smuggling. Rep. Cunningham, who has supported the death penalty for drug traffickers, made a tearful plea to U.S. Judge Reginald C. Lindsay for leniency for his son. Prosecutors supported the sentence, which is half the mandatory five-year term for such an offense, because Cunningham provided information about other offenders involved in the smuggling operation. It was Cunningham's first conviction (Bill Murphy, "Son of lawmaker sentenced to prison," SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE, November 18, 1998).

Prosecutors had agreed to recommend a 14-to-18-month term in boot camp and a halfway house for Cunningham, but the Representative's son tested positive three times for cocaine while released on bail. On the day of the third failed drug test, Cunningham tried to escape authorities by jumping out a window onto a restaurant roof, breaking his leg. He is scheduled to participate in drug treatment while in prison, which, if successful, may reduce his sentence by as much as a year.

Todd Cunningham was arrested on January 17, 1997, by DEA agents for flying more than 400 pounds of marijuana into Lawrence Municipal Airport in North Andover, Massachusetts (see "U.S. Rep. Cun&shyp;ningham's Son Charged With Drug Trafficking," NEWSBRIEFS, February 1997, p. 30).

On August 14, 1997, Cunningham pleaded guilty to possession and conspiracy to sell marijuana. He also admitted to helping smuggle two other shipments of marijuana out of California (Bill Murphy, "Law&shyp;maker's son pleads guilty," SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE,, August 15, 1998).

http://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/00-03-SPR/congress.html

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The war on drugs is a scam. Mike Levine was a DEA agent for 17 years before he realized he was part of a scam, but most people dismiss his claims without giving them any consideration. The fact that we have allowed US occupied Afghanistan to supply the poppies to produce over half of the world's heroin, should be enough evidence to make any open minded person wonder if the war on drugs is real.

There have been too many lies. The Reefer Madness campaign had some of the most outrageous lies in all history, yet some older Americans still have opinions on marijuana which were formed from these lies. The government lies, the media lies and our schools lie. Maybe it's time to try the truth, and let the chips fall where they may.

[mathurin]

good point, so my next question, who really has the truth?
who actually did their study without bias?
is it actually possible to do such a study without bias, i have seen studies where were tests given to light and heavy users which proved that heavy usage harmed cognitive ability, and i have seen the same type of studies given by different people, and they prove the exact opposite
when the evidence collides in such a way how can you actually claim either side is true?

[Norrin Radd]

mathurin wrote: good point, so my next question, who really has the truth?
who actually did their study without bias?
is it actually possible to do such a study without bias, i have seen studies where were tests given to light and heavy users which proved that heavy usage harmed cognitive ability, and i have seen the same type of studies given by different people, and they prove the exact opposite
when the evidence collides in such a way how can you actually claim either side is true?

Look, you have been a great person to debate. You have taken all my $hit and still come back, that says a lot about you.

Ther are many controvercial issues with many piece of evidence which contradict each other. It is up to each individual, to do the best they can, to seperate fact from fiction. Global warming is a good example. Which side do you believe?

Often times to decide which side is more believable, research on related issues is needed.

Have you ever asked youself why such outrageous lies were made up about pot during the reefer madness campaign? Have you ever wondered why the maases were told that one joint would make people want to rape and murder?

If you are really interested in this topic, I urge you to read about the marijuana tax act and especially all you can find on Dr. Woodward.

If you do this and still wish to discuss this topic, then let me know.

-norrin

[Osama F Kerry]

Pimpkie_69 wrote: Why are people even debating this issue? It's so one sided it isn't even funny. Anyone against marijuana legalization is a complete hypocrate, it's as simple as that. Someone who is anti-legalization give me ONE good reason why it shouldn't be legal but alcohol and cigs should be.

Here's what Foamy has to say:

http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=276

[Norrin Radd]

Who is the chick in the pic?

What a hottie!

[thefranzkafkafront]

Osama F Kerry wrote: Pimpkie_69 wrote: Why are people even debating this issue? It's so one sided it isn't even funny. Anyone against marijuana legalization is a complete hypocrate, it's as simple as that. Someone who is anti-legalization give me ONE good reason why it shouldn't be legal but alcohol and cigs should be.

Here's what Foamy has to say:

http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=276

His basic points :lol:

Seem to revolve around medical marijuana, which i coulnt give two ***** about anyway thats not the point, opiates have medical uses dosent mean treated as any diffrent from anyother drug.
Thats totaly beside the point the medical uses of the drug shoulnt effect it legality. Alchol has medical uses, nicotine dose not.

Secondly he little points about majiuana being uses to escape life. Then what exaclty do you go to a pub/bar for when youve had an less than awsome day.

[George W Bush]

I believe several reasons for its illegality but let me say the 'health' reasons for illegality are a convenient lie as they havent been proven.

1) Pharmaceutical's consider it a threat because of weed's ease of production and numerous "cures". People wouldnt feel incentive to go to doctor for things like headaches, or coughs or colds. Weed's a wonder drug and despite what may ail you (parallel to weed use) - just fire up the bong and all will be ok.

2) It would create revenue for 'undesirables' - or low-poverty neighborhoods which would cause power struggles between civil and state governments. (Civil government being the neighborhood's with say in public affairs)

3) It relaxes people to the point of apathy - undermining propaganda controls: commercials that stimulate buying. Example, not feeling like going to the movies, buying the latest DVD, etc. Not contributing to the recreation economy, which acts like one huge bong anyway (making people feel good).

So, if you find who the illegalization BENEFITS, you can understand WHY (though its quite Gestapo-like).

[Tony Pitsacada]

George W Bush wrote: I believe several reasons for its illegality but let me say the 'health' reasons for illegality are a convenient lie as they havent been proven.

1) Pharmaceutical's consider it a threat because of weed's ease of production and numerous "cures". People wouldnt feel incentive to go to doctor for things like headaches, or coughs or colds. Weed's a wonder drug and despite what may ail you (parallel to weed use) - just fire up the bong and all will be ok.

2) It would create revenue for 'undesirables' - or low-poverty neighborhoods which would cause power struggles between civil and state governments. (Civil government being the neighborhood's with say in public affairs)

3) It relaxes people to the point of apathy - undermining propaganda controls: commercials that stimulate buying. Example, not feeling like going to the movies, buying the latest DVD, etc. Not contributing to the recreation economy, which acts like one huge bong anyway (making people feel good).

So, if you find who the illegalization BENEFITS, you can understand WHY (though its quite Gestapo-like).

I don't think that weed makes people apathetic. I believe that our culture holds people in apathy much stronger than any drug. Actually, culture is a drug at least pop culture is. People are so rapped up with where Jessica Simpson got her hair done or "Oh my god what’s going to happen on the OC next week". That they ignore the true problems of the world because they are taught by the brainwash box that it's more important to know who's cheating who's f***ing who's hot who's not rate my pic. Sex and violence, the American collective mind resembles that of the Romans who filled the coliseum to see Christians be ripped apart by exotic animals.

[andrewm87]

I believe the reason marijuana is illegal because the government knows its a social drug. It brings people together, and you cant say it doesnt. If you get 1 million people together and give them as much alcohol they can drink before they stop how many fights do you think there would be? Murders? Rapes? But if you get 1 million potheads together and let them smoke up how many fights will you have? It would be a bunch of laughing and munching down (I have seen this many times fights occurring at party because so and so was drunk, but you never hear of so and so fighting because he was high). I'm 100% for the legalization of marijuana, or atleast the decriminalization. Marijuana isnt some evil drug that makes you a burnt out or a high school drop out or a fiend. And the little theory that its a gateway drug, that just pisses me off. I sincerely believe that the dealers (some dealers, some wont sell the hard s**t, atleast to there friends) are the gateway. Up where I live, people dont smoke pot that much (the older generation), they like there pills. And thats why some dont smoke weed, so they wont lose there pill connection (methadone clinics ect).

[mojo]

andrewm87 wrote: I believe the reason marijuana is illegal because the government knows its a social drug. It brings people together, and you cant say it doesnt. If you get 1 million people together and give them as much alcohol they can drink before they stop how many fights do you think there would be? Murders? Rapes? But if you get 1 million potheads together and let them smoke up how many fights will you have? It would be a bunch of laughing and munching down (I have seen this many times fights occurring at party because so and so was drunk, but you never hear of so and so fighting because he was high). I'm 100% for the legalization of marijuana, or atleast the decriminalization. Marijuana isnt some evil drug that makes you a burnt out or a high school drop out or a fiend. And the little theory that its a gateway drug, that just pisses me off. I sincerely believe that the dealers (some dealers, some wont sell the hard s**t, atleast to there friends) are the gateway. Up where I live, people dont smoke pot that much (the older generation), they like there pills. And thats why some dont smoke weed, so they wont lose there pill connection (methadone clinics ect).

Anything that impairs reality should be illegal. Before you say but politicalmojo alcohol impairs reality would you like to get rid of that. Alcohol is an exception because you can a consume a little and not be impaired unlike marijuana. It gives people a false sense of right and wrong and does nothing for the good of society. Take Amsterdam for instance it has become the sess pool of Europe. As lovely as it sounds to have more baked stoners hanging outside McDonalds all over the nation your presumption is completely wrong.

[andrewm87]

Sure, marijuana affects the reality of the user. How so? It increases the awareness of the senses (eating, drinking, smell), it increases the connection between the mind and the body, its a mood lift, and it increases my interest in the world around me. Oh but wait, why buy something illegal when I could just go to the doctor, tell him I have anxiety and I will get a nice prescrip to xanaxs! But those are just fine, as long as you have a prescription even though pills are far more physically and mentally addicting than marijuana ever could be. And alcohol, I could drink 1 beer but who the hell drinks just 1 beer? For the taste? I can smoke a little and not be stoned or baked, just buzzing. As far as Amsterdam goes, I would blame the tourists. Do you think that the locals go out everyday and smoke away till the early morning? I doubt it, because pot isnt some big deal, its about the same as going to the bar.

[Pimpkie_69]

Quote: Anything that impairs reality should be illegal. Before you say but politicalmojo alcohol impairs reality would you like to get rid of that. Alcohol is an exception because you can a consume a little and not be impaired unlike marijuana. It gives people a false sense of right and wrong and does nothing for the good of society. Take Amsterdam for instance it has become the sess pool of Europe. As lovely as it sounds to have more baked stoners hanging outside McDonalds all over the nation your presumption is completely wrong.

So, then should drinking LOTS of alcohol (to the point of drunkenness) be illegal then, if substances that impair reality are illegal?? Your desire for nannying laws on things that really aren't that dangerous are ridiculous. Amsterdam is hardly the cesspool of Europe, you haven't been to Bradford have you? Now there's a craphole.

[Norrin Radd]

politicalmojo wrote: andrewm87 wrote: I believe the reason marijuana is illegal because the government knows its a social drug. It brings people together, and you cant say it doesnt. If you get 1 million people together and give them as much alcohol they can drink before they stop how many fights do you think there would be? Murders? Rapes? But if you get 1 million potheads together and let them smoke up how many fights will you have? It would be a bunch of laughing and munching down (I have seen this many times fights occurring at party because so and so was drunk, but you never hear of so and so fighting because he was high). I'm 100% for the legalization of marijuana, or atleast the decriminalization. Marijuana isnt some evil drug that makes you a burnt out or a high school drop out or a fiend. And the little theory that its a gateway drug, that just pisses me off. I sincerely believe that the dealers (some dealers, some wont sell the hard s**t, atleast to there friends) are the gateway. Up where I live, people dont smoke pot that much (the older generation), they like there pills. And thats why some dont smoke weed, so they wont lose there pill connection (methadone clinics ect).

Anything that impairs reality should be illegal. Before you say but politicalmojo alcohol impairs reality would you like to get rid of that. Alcohol is an exception because you can a consume a little and not be impaired unlike marijuana. It gives people a false sense of right and wrong and does nothing for the good of society. Take Amsterdam for instance it has become the sess pool of Europe. As lovely as it sounds to have more baked stoners hanging outside McDonalds all over the nation your presumption is completely wrong.

Wow, that's possibly the most inaccurate post I have ever read here. Talk about denial.

This person probably still believes the outrageous lies that were told about marijuana during the reefer madness campaign.

Jeesh.

[mojo]

Can you honestly say that the legalization of marijuana would be something that whould have a positive impact on America.

[Pimpkie_69]

Quote:
Can you honestly say that the legalization of marijuana would be something that whould have a positive impact on America.

Yes. It would bring the prison population down, let America actually live up to its name of "the land of the free", and help the police be able to focus on catching REAL criminals. You know Singapore is a really safe country I'm sure, but the laws there are strict as hell. America was not founded on the principle of being as safe as possible, but being a free nation. Besides, legalizing marijuana wouldn't turn America into some crime ridden sh*thole or anything, if anything, crime would go down, since marijuana would no longer be illegal.

[mojo]

http://www.flashplayer.com/animation/drugsinyourhead.html

Caution explicit language in link

This squirrel explains why the legalization of marijuana is wrong.
(its hilarious)

[Norrin Radd]

politicalmojo wrote: Can you honestly say that the legalization of marijuana would be something that whould have a positive impact on America.

You do not get it.

According to the most recent polls, high school children responded that they can get marijuana easier than they can get alcohol, or cigarettes.

In case you didn't know, alcohol and cigarettes are legal and marijuana is illegal.

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(AP) Few teenagers say they've tried marijuana, but teens say it's easier to buy than cigarettes or beer, according to a national survey.

More than one-third of teens polled by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse said they could buy marijuana in just a few hours, 27 percent in an hour or less.

For the first time since the study began in 1996, marijuana edged out cigarettes and beer as the easiest drug for teenagers to buy — 34 percent said it's the easiest of the three, compared with 31 percent for cigarettes and 14 percent for beer.

Overall, however, 75 percent of students said they have not smoked marijuana.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/20/health/main519228.shtml

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