Political Crossfire Forums

Locke25 · Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 3636 Location: Georgia

Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: Don Quixote wrote: Does God have a punishment for those who commit evil acts? If so, what is that punishment.

Hell.

Does God say that killing innocent people is evil? If so, all these Islamic suicide bombers that do things in the name of their God, will they go to Hell... or what?

Suleiman the Magnificent · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 109

Locke25 wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: Don Quixote wrote: Does God have a punishment for those who commit evil acts? If so, what is that punishment.

Hell.

Does God say that killing innocent people is evil? If so, all these Islamic suicide bombers that do things in the name of their God, will they go to Hell... or what?

They believe they are killing their "enemy" and in their eyes Allah will send them to heaven - even though the killing of innocent people is strictly prohibited by the Qu'ran. I am not Allah so I do not know for certain, but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell. Let me repost some verse's from the Noble Qu'ran about killing people.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Qu'ran, 2:190)

But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Qu'ran, 8:61)

...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people... (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

uzi · Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 998

Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

fourtysixandtwo · Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject:

uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

No one can ever truly know that.

Duchifas · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 9950

uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

The ones who succeed....

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Duchifas wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

The ones who succeed....

:roll: wow talk about ignorant Duchifas, lets not turn this into a flame thread.

It is fine to discuss Islam especially if it is an intelligent conversation but to say that someones god endorses killing by sending them to heaven is pretty ignorant, especially when you have a muslim right here telling you that is not the truth.

You and I both know that many muslims are illiterate, it is this that has led to SOME muslims believing that terrorist acts will send them to heaven. If Bin Laden obtains a position of authority and tells illiterate people that god wants them to do something then who is to blame; Bin Laden or the Muslim religion???

uzi · Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 998

Were the 19 hijackers on September 11th illiterate?

Oh, make no mistake, most of these terrorists and suicide bombers are educated people. Some have even been educated in U.S or British universities. I wouldn't call them illiterate. Though it is true that the terrorists sometimes take advantage of minors and the mentally challenged, or people in distress, those are by no means the only recruits used in suicide attacks.

ForestGump · Joined: 04 Feb 2005 Posts: 2611

Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: Duchifas wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: This is my first post here at these forums.

To spur some discussion in this particular forum I will gladly answer any questions any of you have about Islam.

Tell us about jihad.

Jihad means to strugge in the name of Allah. It doesn't mean to kill western infidels or something just as ridiculous. So that could mean fighting for truth, justice, condemning terrorist attacks, etc.

It even states in the Qur'an that you should be peaceful to all those that are peaceful and should only become hostile when someone initiates hostilites against you.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)

But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

The Jihad verses in the Qur'an refer to a time when the pagans were oppressing and initiating hostilities towards the Muslims.

Uhh, I have a question. Is that a middle-upper English translation your quoting from, King James version. Was that particular translation your reading from a modern translation, but purposefully uses middle-upper English terms to make it sound more bible-ish?

"loveth"
"do thou"
"heareth"
"knoweth"

And why do people still read the King James version of the bible? :lol:

More of a general criticism of bible/koran type of folks out there, do you honestly think Mohammed or Jesus walked around using out-dated vocabulary to sound bible-ish?

Would Mohammed/Jesus say to you, "Hi, how you doing friend?"

Or would they say, "How doest thou, on thee fine dayeth?"

Im not an atheist knocking the bible, I like the bible, read it sporatically, enjoy it, believe it, but distrust people who read King James version of the bible for trying to sound bible-ish, as if the vocabulary gives extra special meaning.....im rambling.

Bicofborg · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Cydonia

Hi, I´d be interested to know what the Kaballah in Mecca actually is, some say it´s Abrahams house others that it´s a comet or piece of god.

Ive head that the Old testament and therefore the Jewish Tora is the same or similiar to the Koran. If so and if it was given to Mohahmed in Arabic, why are the older scriptures written in Greek and Armaic.

do you think a god of love and forgivness would create a hell where people who messed up for various reasons would suffer for eternity? i don´t. After all it was Satan who started the ball rolling and we can´t be blamed for the imperfection which has come from that.

I would like to add that the Agia Sofia Mosque isn´t a Mosque any more as far as I know, they changed it back into a Museum.

fourtysixandtwo · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:44 am Post subject:

Duchifas wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

The ones who succeed....

Oh come on, followers of Islam are no enemy of Jews and Christians, rather they are our brothers and shoulden't be hated for a minority of misguided fanatics.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:49 am Post subject:

I got a question about the Islam, if it's anti semite:

Is the Quran antisemite?
Because it says that all the Jews will be slaughtered at the Doomsday!

And another question, why does Muslims thinks that Alaqsa is Jerusalem?

Suleiman the Magnificent · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 109

ForestGump wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: Duchifas wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: This is my first post here at these forums.

To spur some discussion in this particular forum I will gladly answer any questions any of you have about Islam.

Tell us about jihad.

Jihad means to strugge in the name of Allah. It doesn't mean to kill western infidels or something just as ridiculous. So that could mean fighting for truth, justice, condemning terrorist attacks, etc.

It even states in the Qur'an that you should be peaceful to all those that are peaceful and should only become hostile when someone initiates hostilites against you.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)

But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

The Jihad verses in the Qur'an refer to a time when the pagans were oppressing and initiating hostilities towards the Muslims.

Uhh, I have a question. Is that a middle-upper English translation your quoting from, King James version. Was that particular translation your reading from a modern translation, but purposefully uses middle-upper English terms to make it sound more bible-ish?

"loveth"
"do thou"
"heareth"
"knoweth"

My english translation of the Qu'ran has those words. You would have to ask the person who translated it.

Suleiman the Magnificent · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 109

uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject:

Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Wait a minute, Allah is happy if people are murdered?

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Alexander The Great wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Wait a minute, Allah is happy if people are murdered?

what?!? he just said that Allah won't let you into heaven if you murder an innocent and somehow you turn that into "Allah is happy if people are murdered" ????? :lol:

Alexander The Great · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject:

Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Wait a minute, Allah is happy if people are murdered?

what?!? he just said that Allah won't let you into heaven if you murder an innocent and somehow you turn that into "Allah is happy if people are murdered" ????? :lol:

Everyone got other defenition to innocent...

For example, I think that suicide attacks are killing innocent, but others think it's killing infidels, think that for yourself.

Suleiman the Magnificent · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 109

Bicofborg wrote: Hi, I´d be interested to know what the Kaballah in Mecca actually is, some say it´s Abrahams house others that it´s a comet or piece of god.

Ive head that the Old testament and therefore the Jewish Tora is the same or similiar to the Koran. If so and if it was given to Mohahmed in Arabic, why are the older scriptures written in Greek and Armaic.

Yes, they are similar because the same God inspired them both. Muslims believe that the Torah was corrupted by men but was divinely inspired.

Quote: do you think a god of love and forgivness would create a hell where people who messed up for various reasons would suffer for eternity? i don´t. After all it was Satan who started the ball rolling and we can´t be blamed for the imperfection which has come from that.

It is possible for someone in Hell to go to Heaven and vice versa.

"Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth. And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: a gift without break. (The Noble Quran, 11:106-108)"

Hell is a purifying place. Eventually, it will be empty.

"To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin. (The Noble Quran, 7:40)"

As you can see, when the miracle of the camel passing through the needle occurs those who have atoned for their sins in Hell will be allowed to enter Heaven.

Quote: I would like to add that the Agia Sofia Mosque isn´t a Mosque any more as far as I know, they changed it back into a Museum.

Are you referring to my signature? That isn't the Agia Sofia. It is the Masjid al-Nabawi in Medina.

Suleiman the Magnificent · Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 109

Alexander The Great wrote: Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Wait a minute, Allah is happy if people are murdered?

what?!? he just said that Allah won't let you into heaven if you murder an innocent and somehow you turn that into "Allah is happy if people are murdered" ????? :lol:

Everyone got other defenition to innocent...

For example, I think that suicide attacks are killing innocent, but others think it's killing infidels, think that for yourself.

If you oppress and kill Muslims the Qu'ran permits you to fight back. For example, if a military force massacred Muslims they would not be punished for fighting back and killing some of their enemies. But, if they killed innocent people they would be punished by Allah.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject:

Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Wait a minute, Allah is happy if people are murdered?

what?!? he just said that Allah won't let you into heaven if you murder an innocent and somehow you turn that into "Allah is happy if people are murdered" ????? :lol:

Everyone got other defenition to innocent...

For example, I think that suicide attacks are killing innocent, but others think it's killing infidels, think that for yourself.

If you oppress and kill Muslims the Qu'ran permits you to fight back. For example, if a military force massacred Muslims they would not be punished for fighting back and killing some of their enemies. But, if they killed innocent people they would be punished by Allah.

Suicide bombers as those in Israel?

That's not alloed I hope?

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Alexander The Great wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: uzi4ufriend wrote: Suleiman the Magnificent wrote: ...but I'm pretty sure that these most of those suicide bombers will be going to hell.

Most of them? Or all of them???

Which ones go to heaven?

I am not Allah so I cannot say for certain. But those who kill innocent people will not be allowed to enter Heaven.

Wait a minute, Allah is happy if people are murdered?

what?!? he just said that Allah won't let you into heaven if you murder an innocent and somehow you turn that into "Allah is happy if people are murdered" ????? :lol:

Everyone got other defenition to innocent...

For example, I think that suicide attacks are killing innocent, but others think it's killing infidels, think that for yourself.

If you oppress and kill Muslims the Qu'ran permits you to fight back. For example, if a military force massacred Muslims they would not be punished for fighting back and killing some of their enemies. But, if they killed innocent people they would be punished by Allah.

Suicide bombers as those in Israel?

That's not alloed I hope?

what you need to understand Alexander is that this is a misinterpretation of the Quran by these terrorists. As Suleiman just noted the Quran permits you to fight back against someone who is killing muslims. These terrorists are taking this to the national level and saying that all Israelis are killing muslims and thus why they justify killing these innocent people. Another thing that I think I heard in my comparitive religions class was that suicide is strictly prohibited in the Quran - is this true Suleiman?