Political Crossfire Forums

thundertaker

There have been quite a few threads speculating on who was the greatest ever general. But as the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar approaches, I would have to say it was Admiral Horatio Nelson. I can't think of another naval commander who even comes close to matching Nelson's achievements in almost single-handedly destroying such a considerable naval threat to his country as he did.
However, I may be wrong. Is there anyone else you think might have rivalled or overtaken Nelson in terms of sheer maritime greatness?

Angela · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:28 am Post subject:

as a fleet commander and tactician I can't think of anybody else.

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

Nelson and Drake for the British amongest us.

However I suspect that our American Posters will throw their support behind Nimitz and Halsey for their actions in the Pacific during WWII.

However even though he lost the battle of the Atlantic (Thank God) we should not forget Karl Donitz the commander of Germany's U-Boats

I sure other posters will come up with others from Russia and France.

thundertaker · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:28 am Post subject:

They were good, but none of them match up to Nelson's achievement. The weather played a key role in destroying the Spanish Armarda. Nimitz was very good, but at the end of the day, the result of the naval war in the pacific was never really in any doubt. Nelson's victories were virtually flawless and almost entirely due to his own tactical genius and daring....

Alexander The Great · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:45 am Post subject:

With no doubt, Nelson.

Simon De Montfort · Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 2204 Location: Huntsville, Al

It's simple, Nelson. I can't think of anyone else who would even come close.

thundertaker · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:39 am Post subject:

No wonder threads like this don't come up very often......

bigstick61 · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:56 am Post subject:

Nelson, definitely. As far as American Admirals go, I think Halsey was an idiot who got lucky sometimes. His actions prevented us from totally destroying the Japanese Fleet during the Battle for Leyte Gulf. His obsession with the enemy's carriers allowed him to pursue the decoy set up by Japan, taking the battleline with him to destroy cripples, instead of leaving them at San Bernardino Strait. This allowed a Japanese battle force (consisting of battleships, heavy cruisers, and destroyers), the strongest put to sea since Midway, slip through undetected and attack the US Carriers guarding Leyte Gulf, which survived only because Admiral Kurita had a nervous breakdown, breaking off his attack just as he was about to achieve victory. Even when he realized this, Halsey refused to send the battleline back to the Strait, where they would have intercepted Kurita, where, in this scenario or the originally planned one, Kurita's force would have been completely destroyed.

I'd have to say the best American Admirals were Kinkaid and Nimitz, as both could use surface, submarine, and carrier forces well, as well as exploit their appropriate capabilities, to include the battleline. They both were good strategists as well. I wouldn't recognize any Admiral as the best or one of the best in modern times, if they weren't versatile in their tactics, as well as excellent strategists and tacticians, unless they were exceptionally good in their specialized area, like Mitscher was with aviation.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Obviously Nelson, I've even changed my Avatar to one of Nelson's Column for the upcoming celebrations.

Simon De Montfort · Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 2204 Location: Huntsville, Al

JDnCoke wrote: Obviously Nelson, I've even changed my Avatar to one of Nelson's Column for the upcoming celebrations.

That sounnds like fun. :-D

Eton · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:23 am Post subject:

For the sake of variety, what about Pompey the Great's successful campaign to clear the mediterranean of pirates and turn it into a Roman lake.

thundertaker · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:37 am Post subject:

Eton wrote: For the sake of variety, what about Pompey the Great's successful campaign to clear the mediterranean of pirates and turn it into a Roman lake.

Pff, it wasn't that hard. He was backed by the full might of the Roman republic and the pirates mostly compromised of small fleets that could have been easily crushed by any half-competant commander with the resources Pompey had at his disposal....

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

Simon De Montfort wrote: JDnCoke wrote: Obviously Nelson, I've even changed my Avatar to one of Nelson's Column for the upcoming celebrations.

That sounnds like fun. :-D

Have you not seen? At Portsomouth this Thursday hundreds of ships from countries all over the world are going there for the International Review headed by our Queen. The greatest warships afloat will be there including French Aircraft Carrier Charles de Gaulle, British Carrier Arc Royal, a plethora of US naval ships, several Australian, Canadian and Japanese naval vessels and hundreds of private, or organisation related vessels for a general celebration of Human history at sea. Its called 'Trafalgar 200', type it into Google for more info.

thundertaker · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:

The Royal Navy had hoped the US would send a bigger ship......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669751,00.html

JLB · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 26454 Location: Casa del JLB

Fletcher at Midway.

Dewey at Manila Bay.

Togo at the Battle of the Yellow Sea, Russo-Japanese War.

Nagumo at Pearl Harbor.

Of these, Fletcher ranks up there with Nelson, as far as the importance of the battle.

Angela · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:39 am Post subject:

JLB wrote: Fletcher at Midway.

Dewey at Manila Bay.

Togo at the Battle of the Yellow Sea, Russo-Japanese War.

Nagumo at Pearl Harbor.

Of these, Fletcher ranks up there with Nelson, as far as the importance of the battle.

I think of Spruance more than Fletcher at Midway TF16 sank 3 of the 4 Japanese carriers, while TF 17 one and lost the Yorktown, If I'm not mistaken Fletcher after the first stage of the Guadalcanal invasion was removed from carrier command having become usuited for the role.

Eton · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:16 am Post subject:

thundertaker wrote: The Royal Navy had hoped the US would send a bigger ship......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669751,00.html

Even I feel a little sad, that the Royal Navy wanted the Americans to send one of their giant aircraft carriers so as to prevent the French from having the largest ship - they didn't even consider that two foreign navies will have the two largest ships at the review.

JDnCoke · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Oxford, Queen's

thundertaker wrote: The Royal Navy had hoped the US would send a bigger ship......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669751,00.html

This seriously wants me to make us scrap our nukes and pay for the largest most f**k off carrier in the world. As the founder of modern naval tactics which should have at least the 2nd or 3rd most powerful navy in the world. :evil:

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:13 am Post subject:

JDnCoke wrote: thundertaker wrote: The Royal Navy had hoped the US would send a bigger ship......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669751,00.html

This seriously wants me to make us scrap our nukes and pay for the largest most f**k off carrier in the world. As the founder of modern naval tactics which should have at least the 2nd or 3rd most powerful navy in the world. :evil:

I thought we did? We're struggling with the French for 2nd or 3rd place though....

JLB · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 26454 Location: Casa del JLB

Angela wrote: JLB wrote: Fletcher at Midway.

Dewey at Manila Bay.

Togo at the Battle of the Yellow Sea, Russo-Japanese War.

Nagumo at Pearl Harbor.

Of these, Fletcher ranks up there with Nelson, as far as the importance of the battle.

I think of Spruance more than Fletcher at Midway TF16 sank 3 of the 4 Japanese carriers, while TF 17 one and lost the Yorktown, If I'm not mistaken Fletcher after the first stage of the Guadalcanal invasion was removed from carrier command having become usuited for the role.

I'd give Spruance props too, but he was under Fletcher at Midway.

Just as Nagumo was great at Pearl Harbor, and made my list, i thought we were judging on one battle, not an entire career.