Political Crossfire Forums

doudou · Joined: 29 Apr 2005 Posts: 36

Among them those died in 1894, Sino-Japanese War.
Among them those died in 1899, when the allied army fell Peking
Among them those died in 1905, Sino-Russian War in Manchuria
Among them those died in border conflict in Manchuria, an attempt to attack Russia
Among them those died since 1930, when Japanese invaded China
Among them those died since 1941, when Japanese attacked South East Asia
Among them those died in Pearl Harbour, Australia and Iwojima….

Can you tell how many of them not died in foreign lands, and not died as an aggressor?

Are they deserved to be visited?
Do Japanese asked themselves, they should not be in the shrine if there was no aggressor?

sage · Joined: 10 Apr 2005 Posts: 25 Location: india

please clarify your question a bit more. sorry to say, but the grammar is horrible.don't mind.

PSmentality · Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 221 Location: Queens, NY

I can see what he's asking. Should Japanese soldiers be glorified for their efforts even though they were always the agressors? Im not really sure how to answer this question but just for the record I never really liked the Japanese military nor any military for that matter. :)

The_Right_Honourable · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 682 Location: UK (mostly)

The Japanese murder millions. They tortured my great uncle who was a British PoW. I have no love for what they did.

But they died for what they believed in, even if it was wrong. I cant believe it was only 2.5 million! Germany lost like 10 million in just 50 years.

IronBrigadeMike (IBM) · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 6130 Location: VA

The_Right_Honourable wrote: The Japanese murder millions. They tortured my great uncle who was a British PoW. I have no love for what they did.

But they died for what they believed in, even if it was wrong. I cant believe it was only 2.5 million! Germany lost like 10 million in just 50 years.

Yes personally I do not care for Japan's military becaus of their brutal history (WW2 they did worse things than the Germans). Yeah sure they died fighting for what they believed in but so has everyone in the history of the world. Not to disrespect them, I am just saying it is no different from all other soldiers who died.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

doudou wrote: Among them those died in 1894, Sino-Japanese War.
Among them those died in 1899, when the allied army fell Peking
Among them those died in 1905, Sino-Russian War in Manchuria
Among them those died in border conflict in Manchuria, an attempt to attack Russia
Among them those died since 1930, when Japanese invaded China
Among them those died since 1941, when Japanese attacked South East Asia
Among them those died in Pearl Harbour, Australia and Iwojima….

Can you tell how many of them not died in foreign lands, and not died as an aggressor?

Are they deserved to be visited?
Do Japanese asked themselves, they should not be in the shrine if there was no aggressor?

What of all the chinese they murdered and mutilated?
Do they deserve to be visited?
Is this a "quit hating on japan" thread?
If this is about chinese protests then fooyee.
If this thread is about Japanese not getting respected on VE day?, well.... Last time I checked The japanese werent there.
If this is about the Nuke dropped on them, yes it was a tragity...but... its history my friend.

Please elaborate.

Rilzic · Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 385 Location: Alb, NM, USA

i don't even think the japanese have apologized to china for what happend in WW2.

they have not made a new military (well one with offenive power). and on the others hand germany has built a military but has apologized and joined the EU

IronBrigadeMike (IBM) · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 6130 Location: VA

Japanese have not recognized what happened (atrocities) in China and still down play Pearl Harbor and refuse to apologize for it while beating to death the fact that they were the victims of the atomic bombs. Not to mention all the toture of POWs that they did.

The_Right_Honourable · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 682 Location: UK (mostly)

They did intend to declare war before attacking Pearl Harbour.

It was a great dishonour for Tojo and many Japanese that they declared war AFTER the attack.

IronBrigadeMike (IBM) · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 6130 Location: VA

The_Right_Honourable wrote: They did intend to declare war before attacking Pearl Harbour.

It was a great dishonour for Tojo and many Japanese that they declared war AFTER the attack.

:lol: They teach that they planned to declare war but they weren't able to notify the U.S. in time before the attack :roll: . Give me a break. They are just trying to cover up more of what they did.

The_Right_Honourable · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 682 Location: UK (mostly)

IronBrigadeMike (IBM) wrote: The_Right_Honourable wrote: They did intend to declare war before attacking Pearl Harbour.

It was a great dishonour for Tojo and many Japanese that they declared war AFTER the attack.

:lol: They teach that they planned to declare war but they weren't able to notify the U.S. in time before the attack :roll: . Give me a break. They are just trying to cover up more of what they did.

All i know is what ive seen in film and animation. But a cowardly strike does not fit with my image of the Japanese sense of honour.

must-crush-capitalism888 · Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 1

One Japanese Samurai wrote , "If one were to enter a cave and find his enemy sleeping on the ground, he is to kick up his pillow, toss him a sword and battle, when the enemy feels fit..." Well, I think it is quite evident that at Pearl Harbour, this "code" was not followed. Killing civilians, burning villages, raping women, for the love of god... What kind of honour is that? I don't give a bloody care whether these men thought they were fighting for the divine right of the Emperor, or God for that matter. The fact of the matter is: they pointlessly killed innocent people, tortured the people fighting for "good" and have never acknowledged that they have done anything wrong! Therefore, they do not deserve respect.

TwinkieDP · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3608 Location: US

The_Right_Honourable wrote: IronBrigadeMike (IBM) wrote: The_Right_Honourable wrote: They did intend to declare war before attacking Pearl Harbour.

It was a great dishonour for Tojo and many Japanese that they declared war AFTER the attack.

:lol: They teach that they planned to declare war but they weren't able to notify the U.S. in time before the attack :roll: . Give me a break. They are just trying to cover up more of what they did.
All i know is what ive seen in film and animation. But a cowardly strike does not fit with my image of the Japanese sense of honour. People are fundamentally the same, wherever you go. Generally people will not take on the biggest baddest Mofo for a fight. They'll choose the weak and innocent to bully around when their own welfare is threatened. The Japanese are no exception.

It would be like saying all Europeans follow an honorable Code of Chivalry, while history has clearly shown them as not.

Locke25 · Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 3620 Location: Georgia

The Right Honourable wrote: The Japanese murder millions. They tortured my great uncle who was a British PoW. I have no love for what they did.

But they died for what they believed in, even if it was wrong. I cant believe it was only 2.5 million! Germany lost like 10 million in just 50 years.

I agree 100%! :clap:

TwinkieDP · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3608 Location: US

Only 2.5 million in over 100 years? Man! Thats peanuts compared to what Russia lost in just the World Wars.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7892 Location: Petah Tikva

Yeah well Germany and Russia fought far more war's than Japan not to mention bloodier ones, Germany in the 19th century fought so many Napoleonic wars of conquest from France, to Poland, to Russia etc. They also bore a brunt of WW1 killing a few million more, than they had WW2 which bled Germany dry losing millions on the battlefield as it vied for control on all fronts. The Sino-Russian war the 2nd heaviest on Japan in all it's history still resulted in relativly light casulties. In opposition the Russians lost a few hundred thousand. In WW2 the Japanese lost 1.75 million, this accounts of the bulk of their casulties in modern history.

I have no respect for what the Japanese did in any regard during WW2, and if the Americans had decided to drop another bomb on Japan for good measure I'd still be giving them a thumbs up.

Jehan · Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 3685 Location: Rhode Island

When the Japanese apologize for the unspeakably gruesome atrocities they committed, I will consider seeing it your way. But not a moment sooner.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7892 Location: Petah Tikva

When the Japanese apologize for the unspeakably gruesome atrocities they committed, I will consider seeing it your way. But not a moment sooner.

Are you responding to my post? Because I was on your side of the argument...

tk750 · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:

[quote="Rilzic"]i don't even think the japanese have apologized to china for what happend in WW2.

They did not even apologize for kidnapping Korean women and using them as prostitutes during WWII, did not apologize for taking Korean men and making them fight in the front lines for a country that was not theirs, and had not apologized for any of the despicable things they have done to China or Korea in the past. A recent incident was that those Korean prostitutes (age 15 to 30) asked for a simple, official apology admitting they were wrong, but Japan has refused to give them even that. Not money, no special priveleges, just a simple, "I'm sorry, I was wrong." Japanese soldiers are the equivalent of the WWII German soldier. Should we honor them? To an extent yes, but to an extent no.

the hare · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 118

If you can glorify the the wars of America, then you can glorify the wars of Japan.
The Hare