Political Crossfire Forums

[doudou]

As the war-time allies with Japan, Germany takes completely different attitude toward his atrocities committed during the World War Two. German leaders have for more once stated their apology to the war victims. Maybe they have political reasons behind these remarks. But at least their apologies sound sincere and several celebrations have been held in Germany to celebrate the liberation of concentration camps. As a close neighbor, we sincerely hope Japan will confess the war crimes it has committed. Only through this, can it be forgiven by its neighbors.

[doudou]

Japan should face squarely with the history. Their attempt to distort
history will not be accepted by countries had been invaded by Japan. They
should feel sorry for their past wrong doings, and take concrete actions
the mend ties with its neighbours.

[doudou]

The history textbook denies Japan's war crimes and glorifies its invasion of China and other Asian countries before and during World War II.

And the move reflects the emergence of Japanese militarism and will damage Japan's image in Asia and around the world.

[thundertaker]

You do seem to be a little obsessed with Japan's WWII record........

[smirnoff]

I dont see why governments who had nothing to do with WWII should apologize for actions that were not theirs. Dig up Hirohito and make him apologize if you want, I'm not up for shaming either Germany or Japan.

[Chris29]

I agree with smirnoff, there is no need for these governments to apoligize for the atrocities of former socieities and former governments.

My anger with this is that this sort of reasoning is what is preventing Japan from entering the Security Council.

[watermelon]

I agree that countries should apologise for war crimes committed, However I would be interested to know how the US bombing of Japan with the A-Bomb is recorded in US History books. Does the Us government apologise for the war crimes against Japanese civilians or is the BS line about Japan never surrendering unless the US killed thousands of civilians still get air play? I think we know the answer. Neither of the atomic bombs needed to be dropped, there is a great deal of international consensus that the bombs were dropped to prevent the USSR from gaining the glory for capturing both Berlin and Tokyo. Basically it was Eisenhower’s Ego that demanded the bombs be dropped...and does the US say sorry for that?

[TwinkieDP]

watermelon wrote: I agree that countries should apologise for war crimes committed, However I would be interested to know how the US bombing of Japan with the A-Bomb is recorded in US History books. Does the Us government apologise for the war crimes against Japanese civilians or is the BS line about Japan never surrendering unless the US killed thousands of civilians still get air play? I think we know the answer. Neither of the atomic bombs needed to be dropped, there is a great deal of international consensus that the bombs were dropped to prevent the USSR from gaining the glory for capturing both Berlin and Tokyo. Basically it was Eisenhower’s Ego that demanded the bombs be dropped...and does the US say sorry for that?
I'm not comfortable with that argument. People don't order the bombing of 100's of thousands of civilians simply their ego demanded it.

[IronBrigadeMike (IBM)]

watermelon wrote: I agree that countries should apologise for war crimes committed, However I would be interested to know how the US bombing of Japan with the A-Bomb is recorded in US History books. Does the Us government apologise for the war crimes against Japanese civilians or is the BS line about Japan never surrendering unless the US killed thousands of civilians still get air play? I think we know the answer. Neither of the atomic bombs needed to be dropped, there is a great deal of international consensus that the bombs were dropped to prevent the USSR from gaining the glory for capturing both Berlin and Tokyo. Basically it was Eisenhower’s Ego that demanded the bombs be dropped...and does the US say sorry for that?

You sir, are a fool. I would give you a little lecture on the history of why they were dropped, but there are alrady threads on it. So here a few brief points, which I will not be debating:

- The people would have died anyways from fire bombing.
- It shocked the Japanese into surrendering sooner
- It saved hundreds of thousands of American lives (we didn't have to invade)
- Revenge for Pearl Harbor
- Revenge for the Japanese atrocities of the war (they were worse than the German atrocities)

So, there is your history lesson for the day.

[Malencontreux]

3 of your reasons make you a fool.

"They would've died anyways?" 2 wrongs don't make a right -- especially murdering thousands of civilians.
"Revenge for pearl harbour" How many died in pear harbour and how many died to 2 atom bombs? Are you saying that our American lives are worth more than the Japanese?
"Revenge for atrocities during the war" Like I said, 2 wrongs don't make a right. The day I approve of bombing civilians like that is the day Jesus uses a sword.

[The_Right_Honourable]

An amusing thread. Smirnoff got banned?! Sweat Jesus, father of hippies...

Anyway. I think Japan should address its past mistakes, then it can move on with a clear conscience to re-militarise.

The A bobmbs had to be dropped. They were not a war crime. Many things the US has done since have been terrible but i believe the bombs did save lives.

The million US dead from an mainland invasion is a myth. But still it would have been as bloody as the rest of the war combined. The bomb showed every japanese that resistance was utterly futile. It warned off the USSR from invading Japan or moving on western Europe (though Stalin probably woudnt have).

That demonstration of atomic power shocked the world and i believe saved us froma full on atomic war.

[Ch33kY]

Every nation in WWII has something to hide.

Service men in Americans and Australians occupying Japan after the war left many Women pregnant, or very young babies because they were married in their homeland.

Yet another of the humane cost of war.

"Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat" - Jean-Paul Sartre.

Humankind lost the moment it went to war.

[KOV-14]

True, but you must also know that it's the Japanese government's fault not the general public. I for one, was never taught that the Japanese Imperial Army committed these crime crimes in China etc. All they taught me in Japanese elementary school was how horrible the effect of Atomic bombs were on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and heard bunch of stories about poor mothers trying to do whatever they can to keep her sick/injured etc. children alive.

Junior High - High school I was in the US. All they taught me was about Pearl Harbor, War in the Pacific, and politics behind the US decision to drop the A-bomb. How cowardice it was for Japan to attack on a Sunday when everyone was at church praying and how Japan betrayed the US pretending to want to better their relation while planning secretly to take on the US by surprise.

I know about the Unit 731, Nan-king etc. because I now live in Europe and studied WW2 from every angle, from Nazi, Japan, US, Europe and Asia. Now that I have learned about how terribly Japanese soldiers acted in China, Korea, European colonies etc. I would personally like to apologize on Japan's behalf although non of my ancestors were ever involved in the war directly I can sincerely understand why the Chinese people are still angry despite many years passing by.

But please understand that the most Japanese you might meet have never learned about the things I have and do not understand why the Chinese hate Japan so much and only find it uncivilized that the Chinese people throw rocks at Japanese embassy cars and throw garbage at the Japanese sports teams etc. I would like to believe that if they actually had learned about what Japan has done during WW2 to the Chinese and many others (civilian and POW included) they too would feel the same way as I do and apologize deeply from their hearts.

[yETII90]

doudou wrote: As the war-time allies with Japan, Germany takes completely different attitude toward his atrocities committed during the World War Two. German leaders have for more once stated their apology to the war victims. Maybe they have political reasons behind these remarks. But at least their apologies sound sincere and several celebrations have been held in Germany to celebrate the liberation of concentration camps. As a close neighbor, we sincerely hope Japan will confess the war crimes it has committed. Only through this, can it be forgiven by its neighbors.

And why should we care?

If the Japanese want to cover up their atrocities, then let them. Other places do it also.

[TwinkieDP]

yETII90 wrote: doudou wrote: As the war-time allies with Japan, Germany takes completely different attitude toward his atrocities committed during the World War Two. German leaders have for more once stated their apology to the war victims. Maybe they have political reasons behind these remarks. But at least their apologies sound sincere and several celebrations have been held in Germany to celebrate the liberation of concentration camps. As a close neighbor, we sincerely hope Japan will confess the war crimes it has committed. Only through this, can it be forgiven by its neighbors.

And why should we care?
If the Japanese want to cover up their atrocities, then let them. Other places do it also.
Yeah, and why should people care that the Brits wanted to make India into a colony? After all, there are good things that come out of Empires forged thru force. At least in the end we all manage to speak a common universal language right? So yeah, there really is nothing wrong with living by the rules of the wild, "Might Makes Right". Who cares of the majority of Indians live in poverty, have houses filled with rats? Thats just the way things are. The strong get to live in palaces and 5 star hotels, the rest get to live in rat infested huts.

[yETII90]

Danpt2000 wrote: yETII90 wrote: doudou wrote: As the war-time allies with Japan, Germany takes completely different attitude toward his atrocities committed during the World War Two. German leaders have for more once stated their apology to the war victims. Maybe they have political reasons behind these remarks. But at least their apologies sound sincere and several celebrations have been held in Germany to celebrate the liberation of concentration camps. As a close neighbor, we sincerely hope Japan will confess the war crimes it has committed. Only through this, can it be forgiven by its neighbors.

And why should we care?
If the Japanese want to cover up their atrocities, then let them. Other places do it also.
Yeah, and why should people care that the Brits wanted to make India into a colony? After all, there are good things that come out of Empires forged thru force. At least in the end we all manage to speak a common universal language right? So yeah, there really is nothing wrong with living by the rules of the wild, "Might Makes Right". Who cares of the majority of Indians live in poverty, have houses filled with rats? Thats just the way things are. The strong get to live in palaces and 5 star hotels, the rest get to live in rat infested huts.

You do realize that the USA does it also right, everybody does it and therefore people shouldn't aim it at just one country and not aim it at the others. That is why I think that this matter is pointless, if we were to aim it at others than I would see a point to this.

As for your other points, what do they have to do with the issue at hand?

[Joost]

The A-bomb was an unnecessary and cruel mistake; I'm sorry to find out that the myth about it is still taught in schools :(. The Japanese army was defeated in 1943, and any chances of winning were futile; the jaoanese command knew this. However, one of the reasons they did not surrender earlier was of a lacking US postwar strategy. What would happen to Japan after the war? By asking for an unconditional surrender, this question was not answered. Only when the US started negotiating the exact preconditions to surrender and secured the continuation of the imperial family in July/ August 1945, the Japanese command tried to sue for peace. The dropping of A-bombs, apart from other possible reason why they have been dropped (ego, US gaining power in Korea, testing of effects, etc.), were unnecisarily intervening in negotiations that would lead to surrender anyway.

But let us get past the fingerpointing and look at the actual reasons why Japan went to war. Having reformed to a modern state in the latter half of the 19th century, the state looked abroad for expansion. This was common practice: most of Asia was governed or under influence by european nations, and the US. Expansionism, by the time, was the only logical foreign strategy. It would be hypocritical to say that Japanese expansionism is per se worse than expansionism of EU/ the US.
Second, when analysing the First World War, Japan had the idea that the next war would also be a total war of all against all until unconditional surrender. Therefore, it needed to secure its position, not only in the military sphere, but also by creating a material base for prolonged warfare. Since Japan itself is short on material wealth, it sought for this abroad.
Third, Japan tried before to renegotiate its place in the world to gain a more secure position. However, by restricting the navy (if I'm correct, the japanese navy had to have a relation to the britisch navy of 3:5), other countries seemed to be noncooperating. Even miore, while Japan tried to anchor a nondiscrimination clause in the League of Nations charter, it was defeated.

Apart from these reasons, let's look at the american part of the pacific war. Japanese citizens were locked up in concentration camps in the US, japanese POWs were mistreated badly (one of the reasons why so many japanese commited sepukku was not the shame of defeat, but the fear for torture).

Bottom line is: No such thing as objective history exists, but it would be useful if people saw both sides of the conflict :)

[lowchen]

TwinkieDP wrote: People don't order the bombing of 100's of thousands of civilians simply their ego demanded it.

You sure about that???

[The Flat World]

Japan, by not admitting its wartime atrocities, is isolating itself in East Asian politics. Economically it may be interwined with economies like Korea and China, but the political tensions between them prevent them from coming to any agreements whatsoever.

Instablity in East Asia is not only against the interests of themselves, but the whole world.

And as a Korean citizen, I do NOT like the idea of the next Japanese generation being completely ignorant of what their ancestors did to its neighbors.

[TwinkieDP]

The Flat World wrote: Japan, by not admitting its wartime atrocities, is isolating itself in East Asian politics. Economically it may be interwined with economies like Korea and China, but the political tensions between them prevent them from coming to any agreements whatsoever.

Instablity in East Asia is not only against the interests of themselves, but the whole world.

And as a Korean citizen, I do NOT like the idea of the next Japanese generation being completely ignorant of what their ancestors did to its neighbors.
Agreed, I personally don't really expect Japanese to issue formal apologies, but the rest of the world of course already knows the real history of the horrors under Japanese occupation. That I think should be enough for now
BTW, you do write good english for being a Korean Citizen.