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Troops Hand Out Eviction Notices in Gaza

NISSANIT, Gaza Strip - Israeli troops on Monday began handing out eviction notices to settlers of the Gaza Strip at the start of a historic withdrawal that will end its 38-year occupation
In Nissanit, soldiers first delivered the document to a young couple. They were invited into the home and offered a drink of water. Troops encountered no resistance in Nissanit, unlike in several other Gaza settlements

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050815/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

Hobbie · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:28 am Post subject:

This is a freaking travesty... :-|

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6568 Location: US

I just wonder, after the pullout is complete, if the Palestinians want more and carryout attacks, will we defend Israel?

Dragoon · Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: California

Wll, the Isreali's are finally doing the right thing. They're returning land to the Palestinians.

liquidate · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject:

superchick wrote: I just wonder, after the pullout is complete, if the Palestinians want more and carryout attacks, will we defend Israel?

The Palestinians won't stop until they've driven the Jews out of the region. Today it's Gaza, tomorrow it's the West Bank, and finally Jerusalem.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87535

If Israel continues to deal with these terrorists there won't be any Israeli land for the U.S. to defend.

morph · Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2689 Location: The Thunderdome

Considering that Israel illegally aquired land vis-a-vis force, i think it is appropriate to return the land. Not, that i feel it acceptable for the Arabs to launch attacks on Israel. As i understand it, most moderate Palestinians fine with Israel having a state. The Palestinians would like one as well...

morph · Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2689 Location: The Thunderdome

Hobbie wrote:

This is a freaking travesty... :-|

It's a travesty because you have a bias towards the Palestinians, it appears. I think anyone who has any concept of the Six Day War would see that, while the Arab states were in the wrong for initiating a war of aggression, the Israelis were in the wrong for taking land. Clearly two wrongs don't make a right.

Keep in mind that about 60% of Israelis support the withdrawl (per today's USA Today), while about 30% do not support it. Those who do not believe that god gave them the land and it is theirs to take and keep from other people.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Dragoon wrote: Wll, the Isreali's are finally doing the right thing. They're returning land to the Palestinians.

Britain created this mess with the creation of Israel.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

superchick wrote: I just wonder, after the pullout is complete, if the Palestinians want more and carryout attacks, will we defend Israel?

The violence won't stop, but this is a step in the right direction.

Hobbie · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject:

'Palestine' was a region; a desolate region that was controlled by Egypt and the Ottoman Empire prior to the formation of Israel.

'Palestinian' is a made-up term. Those people are Sinai/Mediterranean Arabs from the Sinai/Mediterranean nations like Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan. So yes, I have a bias against 'Palestinians,' because there's no such thing as a 'Palestinian.'

superchick wrote: I just wonder, after the pullout is complete, if the Palestinians want more and carryout attacks, will we defend Israel?

I hope the US, in partnership with Israel, begins performing counterterrorism with the IDF. Publically. There's nothing I'd like to see more than US soldiers standing side-by-side with Israeli soldiers when the Islamofascists continue their campaign of terror in the West Bank and in Jerusalem.

They aren't going to stop. Now that they have achieved a victory, their movement will grow and they will only use the same tactics in order to continue their campaign of conquest and destruction of the state of Israel and the Jewish people.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Hobbie wrote: 'Palestine' was a region; a desolate region that was controlled by Egypt and the Ottoman Empire prior to the formation of Israel.

'Palestinian' is a made-up term. Those people are Sinai/Mediterranean Arabs from the Sinai/Mediterranean nations like Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan. So yes, I have a bias against 'Palestinians,' because there's no such thing as a 'Palestinian.'

So what? :? Even if there are no Palestinians, that doesn't change anything on the ground. There are around 4-5 million people who call that land home just so that you know.

Hobbie wrote: I hope the US, in partnership with Israel, begins performing counterterrorism with the IDF. Publically. There's nothing I'd like to see more than US soldiers standing side-by-side with Israeli soldiers when the Islamofascists continue their campaign of terror in the West Bank and in Jerusalem.

It's not going to happen anytime soon. Israel has repeatedly rejected peacekeepers.

Hobbie wrote: They aren't going to stop. Now that they have achieved a victory, their movement will grow and they will only use the same tactics in order to continue their campaign of conquest and destruction of the state of Israel and the Jewish people.

Well, I fail to see how the movement will grow. The people there will become busy with running their businesses in Gaza while the violence continues around them.

Hobbie · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject:

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: So what? Even if there are no Palestinians, that doesn't change anything on the ground. There are around 4-5 million people who call that land home just so that you know.

Then they can call it home in the state of Israel--not "Palestine."

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: It's not going to happen anytime soon. Israel has repeatedly rejected peacekeepers.

Probably not. Nevertheless, if/when it does happen I wouldn't want us to be peacekeepers; more like a friend helping out another friend. In fact, I would personally support bringing in Israel in to the Coalition in the War on Terror. That should get the jihadists fired up. Old Glory flying right beside the Star of David.

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Well, I fail to see how the movement will grow. The people there will become busy with running their businesses in Gaza while the violence continues around them.

Aside from the obvious fact that the Islamofascists will move their efforts to the West Bank and Jerusalem and the fact that youthful fools will be joining the ranks of Hamas/Islamic Jihad after this victory, the only thing that will be operating in Gaza will be terrorist training camps, terrorist operation centers, and 'militant' bases.

Mark my words.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Hobbie wrote: Then they can call it home in the state of Israel--not "Palestine."

So are you basically saying that there should be one state of Israel with the entire Jewish and Arab population living in it?

Hobbie wrote: Probably not. Nevertheless, if/when it does happen I wouldn't want us to be peacekeepers; more like a friend helping out another friend. In fact, I would personally support bringing in Israel in to the Coalition in the War on Terror. That should get the jihadists fired up. Old Glory flying right beside the Star of David.

Well, that's a dumb policy because that will probably result in the loss of some allies in the war on terror in the Arab and the wider Muslim world where the actual targets are and where the need for allies is the greatest.

Hobbie wrote: Aside from the obvious fact that the Islamofascists will move their efforts to the West Bank and Jerusalem and the fact that youthful fools will be joining the ranks of Hamas/Islamic Jihad after this victory, the only thing that will be operating in Gaza will be terrorist training camps, terrorist operation centers, and 'militant' bases.

Mark my words.

The situation won't change that much. It will be more of the same.

Hobbie · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject:

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: So are you basically saying that there should be one state of Israel with the entire Jewish and Arab population living in it?

One state of Israel. I don't know what you mean by the "entire Jewish and Arab population living in it?" There's one sovereign nation there. Gaza and the West Bank belong to Israel, as did the Golan Heights. If the 'Palestinians' want a separate nation, they can either become citizens of Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria or carve a nation out of the arctic.

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Well, that's a dumb policy because that will probably result in the loss of some allies in the war on terror in the Arab and the wider Muslim world where the actual targets are and where the need for allies is the greatest.

Oh, without question. But the satisfaction of seeing the hysterical ravings of Islamofascists the world over would be most amusing.

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: The situation won't change that much. It will be more of the same.

Whether it's more of the same or whether it's worse, it's still a loss in the War on Terror and a victory for the Islamofascists.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Hobbie wrote: One state of Israel. I don't know what you mean by the "entire Jewish and Arab population living in it?" There's one sovereign nation there. Gaza and the West Bank belong to Israel, as did the Golan Heights. If the 'Palestinians' want a separate nation, they can either become citizens of Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria or carve a nation out of the arctic.

Well, that's like telling the people in Quebec: "if you want to have your own nation, move to France!" :shock: Besides, if it's one state, everyone should have equal rights. Discrimination based on religion or race is shocking to say the least.

Hobbie · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject:

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Hobbie wrote: One state of Israel. I don't know what you mean by the "entire Jewish and Arab population living in it?" There's one sovereign nation there. Gaza and the West Bank belong to Israel, as did the Golan Heights. If the 'Palestinians' want a separate nation, they can either become citizens of Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria or carve a nation out of the arctic.

Well, that's like telling the people in Quebec: "if you want to have your own nation, move to France!" :shock: Besides, if it's one state, everyone should have equal rights. Discrimination based on religion or race is shocking to say the least.

Well, they apparently don't want citizenship in Israel. If they did, most of this conflict wouldn't exist.

uzi · Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 998

Hobbie wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Hobbie wrote: One state of Israel. I don't know what you mean by the "entire Jewish and Arab population living in it?" There's one sovereign nation there. Gaza and the West Bank belong to Israel, as did the Golan Heights. If the 'Palestinians' want a separate nation, they can either become citizens of Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria or carve a nation out of the arctic.

Well, that's like telling the people in Quebec: "if you want to have your own nation, move to France!" :shock: Besides, if it's one state, everyone should have equal rights. Discrimination based on religion or race is shocking to say the least.

Well, they apparently don't want citizenship in Israel. If they did, most of this conflict wouldn't exist.

A couple of quick remarks Hobbie,
First, WE don't want to give Palestinians Israeli citizenship, it's not that we all want them to be our fellow citizens with equal rights, but they refuse. Do you think we're crazy? We know that giving them full citizenship would spell the end of the Jewish state. We already have over a million Arab Israelis who are full citizens (within the Green Line). That's more than enough. (Incidentally, what you propose is something some Palestinians want since they would want nothing more than to be recognized as full citizens and change the face of Israel. The only thing better would be giving them the right of return! :lol: )

Second, if you want to send all the Palestinians to Jordan, Syria (and Egypt, don't forget Egypt!) then will you also explain to me how you would deal with the consequences of such a move?

I'll remind you of one likely scenario I already outlined:

Expelling all the Palestinians

uzi wrote: Such a move (and I have to stress again that it just ain't gonna happen) would hurl the entire region into total chaos, the attempt to build a peaceful democratic Iraq would be out the window, and American troops over there would find themselves in the middle of a serious s**t storm. The terrorists would get the popular support of millions of Iraqis which they lack today.

Also keep in mind that the Saudis and Egyptians are armed with some of the best western weapons money can buy so this war will be very bloody.
[edit: And it is highly probable that Egypt would declare war on us if we expelled all the Palestinians since it would threaten their security. Jordan would quickly collapse, and the outcry around the Muslim world would force Saudi Arabia to also declare war or face a coup. Iraqis would lose all faith in the U.S and the West which would mean the U.S would face millions of angry Iraqis, not just several thousand insurgents. Israel would launch preemptive strikes against Syria, Egypt and Saudi Arabia if we thought they would declare war, and it would quickly become a very ugly situation for us all.] Israel would win, especially since the U.S would be forced to fight it out along side us [edit: unless the U.S quickly got all their forces out of Iraq essentially abandoning Iraq], but the casualty numbers we know today, 2,000 dead in Iraq? I'll wager that would be just the weekly average.

It means bye-bye democratic Iraq, bye-bye Jordan (since I presume you mean kicking the Palestinians all to Jordan and Egypt), and God only knows what Iran and Pakistan would do in such an insane scenario.

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34659

Please enlighten us. :-D

Hobbie · Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject:

Uzi wrote: A couple of quick remarks Hobbie,
First, WE don't want to give Palestinians Israeli citizenship, it's not that we all want them to be our fellow citizens with equal rights, but they refuse. Do you think we're crazy? We know that giving them full citizenship would spell the end of the Jewish state. We already have over a million Arab Israelis who are full citizens (within the Green Line). That's more than enough. (Incidentally, what you propose is something some Palestinians want since they would want nothing more than to be recognized as full citizens and change the face of Israel. The only thing better would be giving them the right of return! )

I think perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying. I was explaining to Toon that the "Palestinians" have no desire to be citizens of a state of Israel. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said; I realize the feeling is mutual and I don't blame you. :tu:

Uzi wrote: Second, if you want to send all the Palestinians to Jordan, Syria (and Egypt, don't forget Egypt!) then will you also explain to me how you would deal with the consequences of such a move?

It's either drive them back to their real homelands or continue to suffer this Islamofascist movement the world over. There has to be a massive end-game with a clear winner; perhaps this end-game will be Armaggedon (i.e. Gog and Magog). A "Palestinian" state is only going to lead to another war against Israel, which isn't a much better situation as you've outlined below.

There is no easy answer. Ultimately, at this point, I'm leaning towards being on the offensive instead of on the defensive.

EugenicHegemony · Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 4658

Hobbie wrote: Uzi wrote: A couple of quick remarks Hobbie,
First, WE don't want to give Palestinians Israeli citizenship, it's not that we all want them to be our fellow citizens with equal rights, but they refuse. Do you think we're crazy? We know that giving them full citizenship would spell the end of the Jewish state. We already have over a million Arab Israelis who are full citizens (within the Green Line). That's more than enough. (Incidentally, what you propose is something some Palestinians want since they would want nothing more than to be recognized as full citizens and change the face of Israel. The only thing better would be giving them the right of return! )

I think perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying. I was explaining to Toon that the "Palestinians" have no desire to be citizens of a state of Israel. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said; I realize the feeling is mutual and I don't blame you. :tu:

Uzi wrote: Second, if you want to send all the Palestinians to Jordan, Syria (and Egypt, don't forget Egypt!) then will you also explain to me how you would deal with the consequences of such a move?

It's either drive them back to their real homelands or continue to suffer this Islamofascist movement the world over. There has to be a massive end-game with a clear winner; perhaps this end-game will be Armaggedon (i.e. Gog and Magog). A "Palestinian" state is only going to lead to another war against Israel, which isn't a much better situation as you've outlined below.

There is no easy answer. Ultimately, at this point, I'm leaning towards being on the offensive instead of on the defensive.

38 years of illegal occupation, it's about time they got the hell out of there. I just hope the innocent people losing their homes get compinsated by Israel.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Hobbie wrote: I think perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying. I was explaining to Toon that the "Palestinians" have no desire to be citizens of a state of Israel. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said; I realize the feeling is mutual and I don't blame you. :tu:

Well, that's interesting Hobbie, but your explanation doesn't make sense. First, you say that Palestinian have no right to a separate country of their own and now you are saying that they can't live within Israel either! Just so that you know, they can't just disappear from the face of the earth! :wink:

Hobbie wrote: It's either drive them back to their real homelands or continue to suffer this Islamofascist movement the world over. There has to be a massive end-game with a clear winner; perhaps this end-game will be Armaggedon (i.e. Gog and Magog). A "Palestinian" state is only going to lead to another war against Israel, which isn't a much better situation as you've outlined below.

There is no easy answer. Ultimately, at this point, I'm leaning towards being on the offensive instead of on the defensive.

At this rate, it's easier to nuke them and put them out of their misery! :roll: