Political Crossfire Forums

Pilgrim · Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 633

http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/23/newsid_2524000/2524039.stm

Should western world give more aid to nations of Africa struggling against it. I believe there was a promise from Bush to African nations of aid and I can't seem to recall how much it was and how things proceeded after the promise. I do remember it was quite a lot of $$$ and some debate over if USA can afford that much. Anyhow, loosely knit bridge over two topics. Any thoughts?

Kindred · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:48 am Post subject:

Rich nations need not pump money into Africa to stop the AIDS epidemic (although it certainly would be a bad move). All that is really required is the removal of patented AIDS drugs from the WTO's Trad Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Services, so that generic drugs can be made and sold for a far, far cheaper price.

pwbayon · Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Redding, CA

Why should we pay money to help people who will not help themselves? The blacks in Africa wanted their freedom from the whites and they got it. They also get the consequences. The black leaders have been much worse than the white overlords were.

Why should the government and insurance pay the costs for people with AIDS in this country when 98% of those with the decease made a set of personal choices in their lives that led to getting the disease.

DEFCON 1 · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:33 pm Post subject:

Interesting to see that the leftist think Aids is spread due to lack of money.

Someone said the other day to me that if all the wealth was taken away from the haves in the world and was divided evenly among the have nots and then the haves and the have nots had the same, that in 10 years the have nots would be have nots again.

pwbayon · Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Redding, CA

[quote="DEFCON 1"]Interesting to see that the leftist think Aids is spread due to lack of money.

Someone said the other day to me that if all the wealth was taken away from the haves in the world and was divided evenly among the have nots and then the haves and the have nots had the same, that in 10 years the have nots would be have nots again.[/quote]

It is one thing to earn money. It is another thing to save money. And yet even more difficult is to take savings a find a way to invest it in a productive venture.

If I save a dollar I will pay tax on the income. If I earn a little interest/dividend on the savings that is also taxed. If the value goes up that is taxed again. What is taxed is discouraged. You also have to have property rights. That is why Africa is so backward and upside down. They refused to learn from the whites when the whites ruled them. The people now do not even know what a better choice could be made. Even America is fast losing sight of what built this country

Brit123 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 53 Location: Leamigton Spa, UK

pwbayon wrote: Why should we pay money to help people who will not help themselves? The blacks in Africa wanted their freedom from the whites and they got it. They also get the consequences. The black leaders have been much worse than the white overlords were.

Why should the government and insurance pay the costs for people with AIDS in this country when 98% of those with the decease made a set of personal choices in their lives that led to getting the disease.

OMG - that is a disgusting and shameful view to hold. To say "its their fault anyway" is just plain wrong. The education system in Africa generally is very poor - it really isnt their fault. Consider for a moment if the USA had the same rates of infection -It is no lighthearted matter. Hundreds of thousands of children are orphaned via the HIV virus, it tears the continent apart

My view of the issue is the same as the guy said about intellectual property rights. The EU has given its control of patents etc for life saving drugs to the WHO, whilst the USA insists on using the WTO on a case-by-case basis. This serves US pharmaceutical companies' profits but causes needless additional suffering.

Consider this: 2.8 billion people live on less than $2 per day....we are part of a very privileged few, and we should not forget it. A little generosity and understanding goes a long way and people like you really do not help.

Additionally i put it to you that the situation in Africa is not merely a result of poor governance. Granted that has a role, but what of the north/south divide; the huge debts these countries owe; the financial restructuring these countres are forced to undertake against their best interests by orgs such as the IMF; and the huge farming subsidies which stifle trade, amounting to $1bn per day from the EU, US and Japan. These finance inefficiency and dump our produce on these poor countries, stopping development.

Aid isn't the key to sorting out africa, its trade...And from a purely selfish point of view its in our interests to address the poverty. Otherwise Africa may act as a breeding ground for international crime and terrorism

curisz · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 2099 Location: chicago

Oh yeah, africa was so much better off being used as a source of cheap labor and resources for europeans, having their normal political and economic structures shattered, and being treated as second class citizens in their own lands.

The only thing worse than an imperialist is an imperialist who thinks he's doing everybody a favor.