Political Crossfire Forums

[perdidochas]

Freeyourmind wrote: Am I the only one who stands dumbfounded at the decision by the Senate to allow oil drilling in an Alaskan nature reserve?

How can the American people just stand by while Bush seeks to strip every last resource from the planet?

What is wrong with everyone? Has apathy become the latest trend?

It's a small part of a huge nature reserve.

Also, in exchange, Bush has created a huge marine sanctuary close to the Hawaiian islands.

[perdidochas]

Freeyourmind wrote: ForestGump wrote: THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

So let me get this right. You would actually agree with drilling in nature preserves to get a few million barrels of oil, instead of researching alternative energy sources to break your countrys reliance on oil?

I can see it now. Your grandkids will come to you and say, 'Grandad, what does a moose look like? Whay are there no trees in America anymore?'. And you'll sit there and wonder when it was you stopped caring about your planet and why you let it happen.

There are no moose in ANWR. There are also more trees in America today than there have been since pre-Columbian times.

[micfranklin]

perdidochas wrote: Freeyourmind wrote: ForestGump wrote: THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

So let me get this right. You would actually agree with drilling in nature preserves to get a few million barrels of oil, instead of researching alternative energy sources to break your countrys reliance on oil?

I can see it now. Your grandkids will come to you and say, 'Grandad, what does a moose look like? Whay are there no trees in America anymore?'. And you'll sit there and wonder when it was you stopped caring about your planet and why you let it happen.

There are no moose in ANWR.

No, but there are caribou, wolves, bears, and eagles.

[perdidochas]

Freeyourmind wrote: DMG2FUN wrote: JDnCoke wrote: Tell ya what, lets hand control over to ExxonMobil, I don't mind swimming drinking, eating and sleeping oil, how about you?
So how are you using the internet? Do you refuse to use electricity produced by energy sources that cause pollution? Nuke, oil fired, coal fired, or water powered?
Do you drive electric cars that require a recharge from polluting energy sources?
Do you only purchase food produced only by animal force?
Do you heat and cool your home or do you live in a unheated or hot home?
Do you take hot showers or baths? Or do you wash yourself in a creek out back of the home?

Oh for ***** sake! Oil and coal are not the only sources of energy that can generate electricity. My house is a case in point.

I've installed roof solar panels on my house and it is so efficient that I actually have an energy credit ie I produce a surplus of electricity from the solar panels that I put back into the energy grid. I haven't paid a power bill since I installed it. Yes it was expensive, but I don't pay electricty bills so over time it will pay itself off and I don't add to the pollution.

Not any more, but the production of those solar panels caused pollution.

Freeyourmind wrote: The government and oil companies have got everyone so scared that alternative energy sources are inefficient and expensive. Of course thay are going to say this when their major source of income ie selling oil and gas to us could be under threat.


Actually, the economics prove this. Currently, in my town, we have a station that sells biodiesel. Right now, biodiesel is $.20 cheaper per gallon than is petrodiesel. However, there is a $.50 per gallon tax incentive for the production of biodiesel, hence, the real cost per gallon of biodiesel is $.30 per gallon more. Not a big deal for a home user, but for a semi, it is.

Stop trying to sell conspiracy theories. Instead, why not put your money where your mouth is and work to develop alternative energy.

[perdidochas]

MasterChefD wrote: ieatfood wrote: From my point of view, as long as humans aren't being adversely affected who cares? Why bother them for no good reason if they don't bother us? You're going to wipe out an entire species just so you can make some extra money? Do you value life? Why not destroy the Amazon? You could make a lot of money AND paper! Why not kill all the tigers and pandas? Their skins makes pretty clothing for the rich and famous! Why not wipe out all the rhinoceroses? Chinese people use it to make their medicine! Why not kill all the elephants? Ivory is soooo cool! Do you see where this is heading? We shouldn't exterminate a species for vanity or greed.

ieatfood wrote: I eat chickens all the time. I have the right to kill chickens--why not moose or reindeer or whatever? I have no problem with you killing chickens, or moose, or reindeer for food. While we shouldn't exterminate a species for vanity or greed, we certainly shouldn't exterminate a species for fun, and we definitely shouldn't exterminate a species just because we can.

If you want to, we can continue in the the proper forum.

Moose are in no danger of extinction.

[micfranklin]

perdidochas wrote: MasterChefD wrote: ieatfood wrote: From my point of view, as long as humans aren't being adversely affected who cares? Why bother them for no good reason if they don't bother us? You're going to wipe out an entire species just so you can make some extra money? Do you value life? Why not destroy the Amazon? You could make a lot of money AND paper! Why not kill all the tigers and pandas? Their skins makes pretty clothing for the rich and famous! Why not wipe out all the rhinoceroses? Chinese people use it to make their medicine! Why not kill all the elephants? Ivory is soooo cool! Do you see where this is heading? We shouldn't exterminate a species for vanity or greed.

ieatfood wrote: I eat chickens all the time. I have the right to kill chickens--why not moose or reindeer or whatever? I have no problem with you killing chickens, or moose, or reindeer for food. While we shouldn't exterminate a species for vanity or greed, we certainly shouldn't exterminate a species for fun, and we definitely shouldn't exterminate a species just because we can.

If you want to, we can continue in the the proper forum.

Moose are in no danger of extinction.

Yet...

[perdidochas]

micfranklin wrote: perdidochas wrote: Freeyourmind wrote: ForestGump wrote: THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

So let me get this right. You would actually agree with drilling in nature preserves to get a few million barrels of oil, instead of researching alternative energy sources to break your countrys reliance on oil?

I can see it now. Your grandkids will come to you and say, 'Grandad, what does a moose look like? Whay are there no trees in America anymore?'. And you'll sit there and wonder when it was you stopped caring about your planet and why you let it happen.

There are no moose in ANWR.

No, but there are caribou, wolves, bears, and eagles.

And none of the above are considered at all endangered in Alaska.

[toddytodd]

perdidochas wrote: micfranklin wrote: perdidochas wrote: Freeyourmind wrote: ForestGump wrote: THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

So let me get this right. You would actually agree with drilling in nature preserves to get a few million barrels of oil, instead of researching alternative energy sources to break your countrys reliance on oil?

I can see it now. Your grandkids will come to you and say, 'Grandad, what does a moose look like? Whay are there no trees in America anymore?'. And you'll sit there and wonder when it was you stopped caring about your planet and why you let it happen.

There are no moose in ANWR.

No, but there are caribou, wolves, bears, and eagles.

And none of the above are considered at all endangered in Alaska.

Humans don't have a good track record of using resources responsibly, I think that is the point here. However, I will say that in relatively recent times, people/corporations have been more concerned with being responsible with our resources and how they are 'mined'. We, as a people, shouldn't hold current energy companies responsible for the past and say "You didn't do it responsibly then, so you can't do it at all now!", but we should say "You didn't do it responsibly then, so now you must meet these requirements (X,Y,Z), have these safeguards (A,B,C) in place before you go forward today, and be monitored by watchgroups 1,2,3."
If energy consumption is done responsibly, the major fear of destroying the environment can be lessened.

[Wyatt Earp]

perdidochas wrote: Freeyourmind wrote: ForestGump wrote: THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

So let me get this right. You would actually agree with drilling in nature preserves to get a few million barrels of oil, instead of researching alternative energy sources to break your countrys reliance on oil?

I can see it now. Your grandkids will come to you and say, 'Grandad, what does a moose look like? Whay are there no trees in America anymore?'. And you'll sit there and wonder when it was you stopped caring about your planet and why you let it happen.

There are no moose in ANWR. There are also more trees in America today than there have been since pre-Columbian times.

I am not much in a debating mood, But Rush has been spouting There are also more trees in America today than there have been since pre-Columbian times and latter I read some were that it is false.

[perdidochas]

Wyatt Earp wrote: perdidochas wrote: Freeyourmind wrote: ForestGump wrote: THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

So let me get this right. You would actually agree with drilling in nature preserves to get a few million barrels of oil, instead of researching alternative energy sources to break your countrys reliance on oil?

I can see it now. Your grandkids will come to you and say, 'Grandad, what does a moose look like? Whay are there no trees in America anymore?'. And you'll sit there and wonder when it was you stopped caring about your planet and why you let it happen.

There are no moose in ANWR. There are also more trees in America today than there have been since pre-Columbian times.

I am not much in a debating mood, But Rush has been spouting There are also more trees in America today than there have been since pre-Columbian times and latter I read some were that it is false.

Well, I couldn't get the info from pre-Columbian times, but I did get pretty good info from 1630 to present.
You are correct, in terms of from 1630 to present. In 1630, about 46% of the U.S. was forested. In 1907, it was down to 33%, and has stayed at about that rate since.



www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/briefings-summaries-overviews/docs/ForestFactsMetric.pdf#search=%22Forest%20land%20trends%20in%20the%20United%20States%2C%201850-1997%22

[GTTofAK]

micfranklin wrote: perdidochas wrote: MasterChefD wrote: ieatfood wrote: From my point of view, as long as humans aren't being adversely affected who cares? Why bother them for no good reason if they don't bother us? You're going to wipe out an entire species just so you can make some extra money? Do you value life? Why not destroy the Amazon? You could make a lot of money AND paper! Why not kill all the tigers and pandas? Their skins makes pretty clothing for the rich and famous! Why not wipe out all the rhinoceroses? Chinese people use it to make their medicine! Why not kill all the elephants? Ivory is soooo cool! Do you see where this is heading? We shouldn't exterminate a species for vanity or greed.

ieatfood wrote: I eat chickens all the time. I have the right to kill chickens--why not moose or reindeer or whatever? I have no problem with you killing chickens, or moose, or reindeer for food. While we shouldn't exterminate a species for vanity or greed, we certainly shouldn't exterminate a species for fun, and we definitely shouldn't exterminate a species just because we can.

If you want to, we can continue in the the proper forum.

Moose are in no danger of extinction.

Yet...

Ever. The largest population of moose in the world is within the city limits of Anchorage Alaska. A city of 300,000 people. Moose thrive around humans.