Political Crossfire Forums

learn to swim · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: US TELLS IRA TO DISBAND

U.S. Envoy Calls for IRA to Disband

learn to swim · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject:

U.S. Envoy Calls for IRA to Disband After Group's Offer to Kill Men Linked to Belfast Slaying

By SHAWN POGATCHNIK Associated Press Writer

BELFAST, Northern Ireland Mar 9, 2005 — In its bluntest criticism yet of the Irish Republican Army, the Bush administration told the IRA it should disband following the outlawed group's offer to shoot four men including two recently expelled members responsible for killing a Catholic civilian.

Wednesday's call from the U.S. envoy to Northern Ireland, Mitchell Reiss, came a week ahead of St. Patrick's Day when, for the first time in a decade, leaders of the IRA's Sinn Fein party won't be guests of the White House.

This year, the invitations are going elsewhere to the five sisters of the IRA's most recent victim, Robert McCartney, a 33-year-old forklift operator and nightclub bouncer.

"It's time for the IRA to go out of business. And it's time for Sinn Fein to be able to say that explicitly, without ambiguity, without ambivalence, that criminality will not be tolerated," Reiss said.

He particularly questioned Sinn Fein's claim that most IRA activities including robbing banks and shooting petty criminals in the limbs shouldn't be considered crimes. He said Sinn Fein should begin cooperating with the Northern Ireland police, a mostly Protestant force that once suffered heavily from IRA attacks, and today is being substantially reshaped with support from moderate Catholics.

McCartney was killed Jan. 30 after an IRA-led gang slashed one of his friends inside a Belfast pub, then attacked both men outside, clubbing McCartney with iron bars and knifing him in the neck and stomach. By most accounts, the fight started after McCartney's friend made a crude comment to a table headed by a senior IRA figure who thundered: "Do you know who I am?"

The IRA men allegedly then mopped up forensic evidence, stole tapes from a surveillance camera, and warned more than 70 potential witnesses in the pub not to say anything to police or face the IRA's traditional death sentence for informers.

The IRA, which killed about 1,800 people from 1970 until its 1997 cease-fire, relied on support from its Roman Catholic base as it mounted attacks on businesses, British troops and the predominantly Protestant police force. The group ensured its control of the toughest Catholic quarters by attacking petty criminals and killing people accused of helping the police or in some cases merely for honing in on IRA criminal rackets or insulting an IRA figure. FULL STORY

Praetorian · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 8535 Location: Louisiana

I find it so silly that Ireland kills its own people because of a difference of religion, especially since the two forces are both Christian religions. That would be like the American Mormons declaring war on the American Jehovah's Witnesses. Silly.

I love Ireland, and I hope they can pull their heads out of their arses and stop this ****.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

About bloody time you did.

learn to swim · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:48 pm Post subject:

Praetorian wrote: I find it so silly that Ireland kills its own people because of a difference of religion, especially since the two forces are both Christian relgions. That would be like the American Mormons declaring war on the American Jehovah's Witnesses. Silly.

I love Ireland, and I hope they can pull their heads out of their arses and stop this ****.

The "door knockers" vs the "multi wives"? :shock: That would be ugly. :lol:

Praetorian · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 8535 Location: Louisiana

learn to swim wrote: Praetorian wrote: I find it so silly that Ireland kills its own people because of a difference of religion, especially since the two forces are both Christian relgions. That would be like the American Mormons declaring war on the American Jehovah's Witnesses. Silly.

I love Ireland, and I hope they can pull their heads out of their arses and stop this ****.

The "door knockers" vs the "multi wives"? :shock: That would be ugly. :lol:

:lol:

thundertaker · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: US TELLS IRA TO DISBAND

learn to swim wrote:

U.S. Envoy Calls for IRA to Disband

About bloody time and all. Maybe Bush isn't so bad after all. He's the first US president to have had the bollocks to tell Sinn Fein/IRA were to f***ing go instead of inviting them over to the white house for St. Patrick's day and letting their representatives lead the annual parade in New York........

anti-bush2008 · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject:

when was there an avatar contest??
and why are only you're posts showing up on the home page?? it used to be all new posts showed up on the home page (along with a daily poll). now all we see on the home page are learntoswim's posts.
does he or she get special privilages because he's a moderator??

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

Both sides in this sad part of British History need to pull their heads out of their Ar*es and set about rebuilding Northern Ireland It's about time Bush got something Right

learn to swim · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject:

anti-bush2008 wrote: when was there an avatar contest??
and why are only you're posts showing up on the home page?? it used to be all new posts showed up on the home page (along with a daily poll). now all we see on the home page are learntoswim's posts.
does he or she get special privilages because he's a moderator??

You are seeing what is posted in Front Page News on the FRONT PAGE of the web site. I just happen to be the one who posts the most (only mods and admins can post front page news)

And there was an avatar contest held in the lounge that you must have missed.

BTW - post questions in the Q&A forum so we do not ruin threads. Thank you!

Praetorian · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 8535 Location: Louisiana

angusrae wrote: Both sides in this sad part of British History need to pull their heads out of their Ar*es and set about rebuilding Northern Ireland

Hells yeah. I'm Irish, (Irish-American, and halfly so) but I admire the Scots more for having the testicular fortitude to do something about the British occupation.

Hey, out of curiosity, how do the Scots and Irish regard each other? Are they pretty good friends?

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6568 Location: US

Ive wondered since Sept 11 why the only terrorist group, that I had really heard of on a regular basis, along with the PLO didn't get a shout out on the list of groups we are after.

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

Praetorian wrote: angusrae wrote: Both sides in this sad part of British History need to pull their heads out of their Ar*es and set about rebuilding Northern Ireland

Hells yeah. I'm Irish, (Irish-American, and halfly so) but I admire the Scots more for having the testicular fortitude to do something about the British occupation.

Hey, out of curiosity, how do the Scots and Irish regard each other? Are they pretty good friends? I have quite a few friends in Northern Ireland and Eire some from the Catholic Faith some from the Protstant faith. But most Scots just shake their heads at the simplistic attitudes of the mindless bigots which also infest the west of Scotland. On a purely Historical point Scotland was not occupied after 1707 as it was our King who took the English Throne (James the Sixth of Scotland and First of England) but sadly he took his court south. Anyway most Scots look on the Irish as Cousins we have been trading with each other since the 5th Century and maybe even before. I suggest you Google Dal Riata if you wish to see how close the Scots and Irish really are.

Slainthe Mathe and Good Hunting.

Praetorian · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 8535 Location: Louisiana

I figured you two were close since you both share Gaelic and other such traditions.
Thanks.

thundertaker · Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:16 am Post subject:

Praetorian wrote: angusrae wrote: Both sides in this sad part of British History need to pull their heads out of their Ar*es and set about rebuilding Northern Ireland

Hells yeah. I'm Irish, (Irish-American, and halfly so) but I admire the Scots more for having the testicular fortitude to do something about the British occupation.

Hey, out of curiosity, how do the Scots and Irish regard each other? Are they pretty good friends?

The Scots are as British as the English, we live on the same island of Great Britain.
Part of the problem in Northern Ireland today stems from the fact that King James I (VI) planted a lot of protestant settlers in Ulster, some English, but mostly Scots, to break the power of the rebellious Catholic tribes there........

mirage · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 3715 Location: West Coast

thundertaker wrote: The Scots are as British as the English, we live on the same island of Great Britain.
I think the Irish, Scots and English are more closely related than any one of them wants to admit... the English (Anglo-Saxon) being a hybrid of the same Gaelic stock with German (Saxon) blood.

thundertaker wrote: Part of the problem in Northern Ireland today stems from the fact that King James I (VI) planted a lot of protestant settlers in Ulster, some English, but mostly Scots, to break the power of the rebellious Catholic tribes there........
That's the way I always understood it.

Fast forwarding history a little - I think most Americans over here fail to realize that the political division between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland is the result of democracy. The majority of Irish people in the northern counties voted NOT to break from the union. Of course this event occurred AFTER the bulk of the Irish migration to America, which I think is significant when trying to understand the American perspective.

These migrants were for the most part running away from a different Ireland, an Ireland that was under the thumb of British imperial rule, an Ireland that was also hit hard by famine. Being emotional and fiercely proud people, they found it very easy to blame the British for everything and since they were coming to America, a country that amazed the world by breaking free of British rule, they found it easy to preserve and perhaps even cultivate their prejudices.

The fact that most of these immigrants were more proud than literate helped to preserve the "grudge" in America regardless of what was actually happening in faraway Ireland in the 1920's when Britain granted Independence to those that wanted it. So you can see how easy it is for Americans to misunderstand the true dynamics of the problems in Northern Ireland.

So there are really two Irelands - the Ireland on the western edge of Europe, with a population only a small fraction the size of the Ireland in the minds of Irish-Americans. This may sound like a funny thing to say but consider the fact that almost all of the money and weapons going to the IRA comes from Irish-Americans.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

Any chance of arresting the noraid people for supporting terrorism now?

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

Windy wrote: Any chance of arresting the noraid people for supporting terrorism now? That would be a sticky one for any US administration
to deal with.

thundertaker · Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject:

angusrae wrote: Windy wrote: Any chance of arresting the noraid people for supporting terrorism now? That would be a sticky one for any US administration
to deal with.

It wouldn't be sticky if they were supporting Hezbollah or Al Quaeda.......

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 974 Location: Falkirk Scotland

thundertaker wrote: angusrae wrote: Windy wrote: Any chance of arresting the noraid people for supporting terrorism now? That would be a sticky one for any US dministration
to deal with.

It wouldn't be sticky if they were supporting Hezbollah or Al Quaeda....... True but the American Arab population is not as well integrated into American political life as the Irish AmericanS