Political Crossfire Forums

[nicngian]

Is Taiwan a independant country? Should it be given more political freedom? Should it decide its own political and international policies? Or is it just another province of China, a political nuisance which has to be eliminated. With now the Anti-Secession Law coming to light, what will be the future of Taiwan and China? Give your views. Moderators please try not to block anyone as we practise DEMOCRACY and in democracy we do not welcome STRICT CENSORSHIP.

[Canada_Rocks]

Yes it accually is, The After the 2nd world war kissinger discussed the Taiwanese situation in sanfransico and nothing was accually agreed to, and China accually, declaired Tawain part of it before the pacific war and several years later, japan invaded, still nothing was radified.

[eynon]

Canada_rocks wrote: Yes it accually is, The After the 2nd world war kissinger discussed the Taiwanese situation in sanfransico and nothing was accually agreed to, and China accually, declaired Tawain part of it before the pacific war and several years later, japan invaded, still nothing was radified.

60 year old treaties be hanged!!!! After a half century of great leaps forward and cultural revolutions the cultural, societal, and political differences between the 2 nations is huge.
Hell they were a big deal in 1949...the GMD had to kill 20,000 Taiwanese actavists/leaders/freedom fighters to bring Taiwan under Han control. Imagine how many Beijing would have to kill now :evil:

Point is China has about as much right to Taiwan as the US has to Canada.....we're nieghbors, we speak to same lingo, have many cultural similarities but it don't make us the same country.

[Rousseau]

China even paid countries to stop them from recognizing Taiwan...

Also the only reason the United States stop recognizing Taiwan was because of the economic interest of big corporations but they pledged to stop any "aggression" from China across the straight. So the US is caught between a financial and a moral choice. Which one will prevail over time?

Also if China overtakes Taiwan, it would just become a center of agitation and a pain for the government to try to control. After decades of democracy the Taiwanese people will not go willingly...

[Pimpkie_69]

Quote: Yes it accually is, The After the 2nd world war kissinger discussed the Taiwanese situation in sanfransico and nothing was accually agreed to, and China accually, declaired Tawain part of it before the pacific war and several years later, japan invaded, still nothing was radified.
Typical left wing Canadian, representing the supreme authority of China, the Arab world, Africa, and other corrupt nations. But God forbid anyone says anything nice about America or Israel. Anyway, Taiwan is a soverign nation, and the world needs to use diplomatic pressure to get China to recognize this. And the UN needs to recognize Taiwan as an independent nation.

[Canada_Rocks]

Eynon81

I agree with you, Taiwon is a seperate entity..???

[desaview]

fellas,

from the historical perspective, Taiwan was returned by Japan to China in 1945 pursuant to the Potsdam agreement. Question is why returned to China if China has no legitimate claim to it?

from the current perspective, do you realise actually is a dictatorship under marshall law of Chiang and then his son when its economy boomed and since becoming a democracy in early nineties, its economy has slowed?

The pro China faction in Taiwan now controls parliament and Chen, the pro independence President won reelection by a majority of less than 1% and then only after a shooting incident and sympathy votes. Many claims the shooting incident was staged and now the authorities claim the guilty guy commited suicide and case closed.

The world is complicated. You all know only one side of the story.

[Canada_Rocks]

No it wasnt Desaview, you speak of the convetion at sanfransico with Kissenger..(where he coined the phrase)
"after that Peking duck, I'll sign anything"..Unfortunately, nothing was signed.

Let's be real though, If china want taiwon, who is seriously going to stop them.

PS Pimpkie69, this lefty canadian.. Wait till our provincial election in 2 months..Canada is going to get even more lefty. :)

[desaview]

Canada_rocks wrote: No it wasnt Desaview, you speak of the convetion at sanfransico with Kissenger..(where he coined the phrase)
"after that Peking duck, I'll sign anything"..Unfortunately, nothing was signed.

Let's be real though, If china want taiwon, who is seriously going to stop them.

PS Pimpkie69, this lefty canadian.. Wait till our provincial election in 2 months..Canada is going to get even more lefty. :)
no I am not talking about Kissinger and his cold war politics. I am talking about Potsdam 1944. In December 1945, Taiwan was officially handed back to China. In 1948, Chiang occupied it.

The Ching Governement ruled Taiwan as a province since the seventeen century. Taiwan was already mentioned in the Three Kingdoms era as part of Shu Kingdom and supplied troops in Shu's wars. It is a long history.

[desaview]

yes, China wants the reunification but not through violence. It should be by negotiations.

[Canada_Rocks]

yes but what was sined by taiwan???? I dont think you understand. Taiwan is not a part of china because they sorta occupied it and force a chinese gov

America views on annexing makes me laugh.
remember war of 1812, you tried it on canada, didnt quite work..Burning whitehouse...sorry I was waiting for a post where I can say that.

You cant just "claim" an occupied area, unless you declare war on it, invade etc.. you can just say, "it's mine"

[Canada_Rocks]

PS Id like to see a link to some evidence of this 1944 meeting you mentioned, specifically the stuff about Taiwon and china.

[desaview]

Canada_rocks wrote: PS Id like to see a link to some evidence of this 1944 meeting you mentioned, specifically the stuff about Taiwon and china.

i did not make it up. It is official. Taiwan's argument was since Chiang was the govt of China in 1945, Taiwan was returned the his govt which is the ROC under the KMT. Ever since, KMT's position is there is only one china, and one day KMT will reclaim Beijing.

Sometime in the 1980s, KMT drop its claim on Beijing. Chen the new govt campaigns on a platform of independence. KMT still campaigns on platform of one china but will rejoin only after China becomes a democracy. It is all very complicated. American laymen only knows what he wants to know.

[Canada_Rocks]

Im am not saying you made it up, but I have studied this in poly-sci and We did not come across any "written in stone" evidence that taiwan was turned over to china.

I would still need to see evidence. I realize it is very complicated, we got this article and it was all unclear. But nothing was accually decided, hence the problem that taiwan and china are facing.

PS I am not a American Laymen, I am a Canadian Laymen. Which means I am a genius in America. ;)

[Pimpkie_69]

Canada_rocks, enough with the anti-American bigotry. Honestly, if people in Canada said the same things about Pakistanis or Africans as they say about Americans they'd be called racist all around, but for some reason criticism of America, a country very much like us and our greatest ally, is considered good, while criticism of various evil corrupt barbaric dictatorship nations is considered racist.

And China's imperialist aggression against Taiwan needs to be stopped, but this doesn't mean we should go to war with China, by no means should that be done. But at the same time we cannot let China invade Taiwan, or impose their oppressive communist system on Taiwan either.

[Canada_Rocks]

what are you talking about, I asked to see some evidence about the meeting that gave taiwon to China. The is no American bigitry, It may come off as Bigitry becasue I am Canadian, I am anti-republican, but often dont write that and just write america, sorry for that.

And what the hell, I think Taiwon is anation, IM DEFENDING TAIWAN HERE.

Oh yeah. How is it racist, If I lived 30 kilometers south Id be able to say whatever i wanted?

My god, I get the right to voice my opinion when the "REPUBLICANS" affect my country so much. Just like every other nation here has the right.

My god if you cant take the heat, get out of the oven..Please go and read all the anti-canadian junk on this site, there isnt one serious thing about us. Every post is a joke, until somebody like me has to set them strait, If you have read some of my recent posts, you would understand, I am the one cutting the racism down, racism on N.korea, arabs, iraq, canada and china!

[desaview]

Canada_rocks wrote: Im am not saying you made it up, but I have studied this in poly-sci and We did not come across any "written in stone" evidence that taiwan was turned over to china.

I would still need to see evidence. I realize it is very complicated, we got this article and it was all unclear. But nothing was accually decided, hence the problem that taiwan and china are facing.

PS I am not a American Laymen, I am a Canadian Laymen. Which means I am a genius in America. ;)

if you want research on Taiwan, guess you can google, Potsdam declaration, china or Taiwan. I did not try it. like I said it is fact.

[Canada_Rocks]

Yes, but It doent prove anything, It's all how you interpret the international laws. If it was cut and dry like you propose, more webpages would demonstrate this. There are equal wepages explaining how Taiwon is a seperate country.

[desaview]

Canada_rocks wrote: Yes, but It doent prove anything, It's all how you interpret the international laws. If it was cut and dry like you propose, more webpages would demonstrate this. There are equal wepages explaining how Taiwon is a seperate country.

the point is it is a matter within family, it is not about Chinese imperialism

[Canada_Rocks]

I know it is a matter for the chinese to handle, so why are there some many posting here about america getting involved?, like they could stand up against china to begin with.