Political Crossfire Forums

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8584 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: did it not bother you firstly, the scale of destruction bought on by israel to lebanon?

Did it bother me? I felt regret for what has to happen but I also wished that we could have accomplished our task. I also felt a little disturbed by what the parts of Beirut we hit, it just look too much like 1982 and was a little eery.

Quote: and secondly didnt it bother you the amount of innocent human life taken in Lebanon because of this war?

Of course, but what bothered me just as much if not more was knowing there was an enemy militant organization just across the border renewing attacks killing scores of my people and bombarding the city I live in. I live in Haifa emerald, I had friends who knew people that died when the rockets began hitting the city. This is far more real to me than I think you understand.

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 532 Location: Beirut

superskippy wrote: Quote: did it not bother you firstly, the scale of destruction bought on by israel to lebanon?

Did it bother me? I felt regret for what has to happen but I also wished that we could have accomplished our task. I also felt a little disturbed by what the parts of Beirut we hit, it just look too much like 1982 and was a little eery.

Quote: and secondly didnt it bother you the amount of innocent human life taken in Lebanon because of this war?

Of course, but what bothered me just as much if not more was knowing there was an enemy militant organization just across the border renewing attacks killing scores of my people and bombarding the city I live in. I live in Haifa emerald, I had friends who knew people that died when the rockets began hitting the city. This is far more real to me than I think you understand.

dude i dunno where to begin, ur post made me cry :shock: lol get life bro....
Quote: This is far more real to me than I think you understand

guess what? i live in beirut! and many of my friends and even family died during this war... all the destruction all the killing all the war crimes then you come and say you did care abt what the army did but you didnt do anything abt it??
is that how it is overthere? it is just the PM who decides no matter what the people think????

anyway, worldwide i hear most people in pro-(american/israeli) media blaming hezbollah for starting the war :? hezbollah did NOT start the war.

1- hezbollah captured two and killed 4 soldiers after they crossed the borders in the town of ayta el chaab.
2- an israeli tank followed the hezbollah fighters and was destroyed by a land mine followed by anti-tank missiles wich cost the israelis 4 more dead soldiers.
3- the operation happened at 9:10 am , the israeli army knew he had 2 missing soldiers at nearly 10:00am so in 50minutes most of u know the 2 soldiers can be taken anywhere in lebanon.

What happened next???
1- the israeli army started targetting bridges and roads in south lebanon.
2- the israeli army killed a number of civilians in the south.
3- the israeli army targetted the southern suburb of beirut.

4- sayyed hassan nassrallah said in a speech following these actions... the two captured soldiers will NOT return to israel unless all lebanese prisonners are freed.
5- israelis continued killing civilians and targetting roads and infrastructure.
6- hezbollah announces that if israel continue killing civilians he will do the same agaisnt israeli people.

7- the israeli army kills 10 and injure 20 in a raid on a building in the southern suburb of beirut.
8- nassrallah appeared on tv and said you want a war??? we will give you a war!!! and then adressed to the israeli people telling them that their leader is stupid and ignorant and irresponsible and hes gonna fail in whats hes doing and time will show what i am saying.
9- until that day... hezbollah was not targetting civilians in israel, only army bases and soldiers.

the rest of what happened.... we all know it....

when olmert started teh war he said we have 2 goals:
a- return the captured soldiers home.
b- disarm hezbollah.

his goals and objectives changed many many times during the war, (from weakining hezbollah to invading 30km in lebanon to invading 7-8 km in lebanon to just taking 1or 2 km in lebanon ) after the war wich of his goals did he accomplish???
NONE

a war for nothing...
a war that gave more strenght to hezbollah....
a war that encouraged all arab neighbouring countries to do the same like lebanon...
a war that gave hezbollah more crowd and supporters...
a war that cost the israelis the MYTH of the " unbeatable army" ....
a war that cost numerous army generals to lose their jobs...
a war that will cost olmert his job soon....
a war wich HAVE BEEN LOST to 800-1000 FIGHTERS!!!

shame on you israel! while hezbollah mostly killed army members , 40% of 1200 innocent dead civilians are CHILDREN.
1.2 million cluster bombs are all around lebanon!
many internationnaly banned weapons were used!

and they wonder why they cant have peace in their country!

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

^^^^^ +1

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Ali
You say that Hezbollah did not start the war yet your list starts with Hezbollah capturing and killing Israeli soldiers...
If that is not an act of war what is? So if two US Army soldiers come into Lebanon, kill a couple Lebenese troops, kidnap a few and then demand you release Israeli prisoners that would not be an act of war? Yes it would.

The problem your country faces is that you openly house Hezbollah. Your leaders have openly said they will NOT disarm Hezbollah, apparently Hezbollah is intergrated with your goverment.

Quote: a war for nothing...
a war that gave more strenght to hezbollah....
a war that encouraged all arab neighbouring countries to do the same like lebanon...
a war that gave hezbollah more crowd and supporters...
a war that cost the israelis the MYTH of the " unbeatable army" ....
a war that cost numerous army generals to lose their jobs...
a war that will cost olmert his job soon....
a war wich HAVE BEEN LOST to 800-1000 FIGHTERS!!!

Yes this war will help out Hezbollah in the PR war.
This war does not encourage all arab neighbors to attempt this as they have seen how Israel will retailate. Also if a recognized country's actual military did it, it would be an open war. Israel has had a long history of crushing Arab nations that fought wars against them.
Hezbollah has gotten more supporters from this which is sad. However Israel could I guess just release thousands of prisoners for two soldiers.... and repeat this over and over and over as the demands keep coming.
Olmert stopped way to soon on this "war", it should cost him his job. He actually agreed to a completely pro Hezbollah UN cease fire. A cease fire that does nothing more but allow Hezbollah to return, rearm, re position.

Quote: shame on you israel! while hezbollah mostly killed army members , 40% of 1200 innocent dead civilians are CHILDREN.
The number of innocent dead is questionable at best. Hezbollah has been shown to run one heck of a PR campaign to make Israel out to be monsters.

Quote: many internationnaly banned weapons were used!
Cluster munitions are not a banned weapon. What are the "many" other banned weapons used?

Quote: and they wonder why they cant have peace in their country!
No they don't wonder.... when as you clearly stated, militants cross the border kidnap and kill Israel's soldiers... they know why they don't have peace...

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: hezbollah did NOT start the war.

1- hezbollah captured two and killed 4 soldiers after they crossed the borders in the town of ayta el chaab.
2- an israeli tank followed the hezbollah fighters and was destroyed by a land mine followed by anti-tank missiles wich cost the israelis 4 more dead soldiers.
3- the operation happened at 9:10 am , the israeli army knew he had 2 missing soldiers at nearly 10:00am so in 50minutes most of u know the 2 soldiers can be taken anywhere in lebanon.

Explain please how Hezbollah did not start the war when the first three points in of your nine are attributed to the aggression of Hezbollah?
Quote: 1- hezbollah captured two and killed 4 soldiers after they crossed the borders in the town of ayta el chaab.
That is called...... "An Act Of War"

If Israel went into Lebanon and did the reverse it would be considered an act of war... why is this any different?
Also I would have declared war on Lebanon as you all openly house Hezbollah. If Lebanon doesn't want to be bombed by Israel they shouldn't allow Hezbollah to attack Israel.

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 532 Location: Beirut

venom,

yes i did start by hezbollah capturing 2 israeli soldiers but i did also mention it happened on LEBANESE soil... so it was self-defence AND..... capture!

the UN resolution was 110$ pro israel.... It didnt even mention anything abt israeli crimes and mass murdering against lebanese civilians.

and abt the number of dead people.... bring me ur most trusted source and tell me what it says... tell me how much people it says have died in lebanon???

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

Venom wrote:
That is called...... "An Act Of War"

Really, I would call kidnapping a criminal act, nothing more!

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8584 Location: Petah Tikva

I call a crossborder raid and rocket shelling that kills some 10 people and wounded close to 22 including 8 civilians some mauled for life, as well as kidnapping 2 others probably executing them by now, a very clear act of war. Killing, wounding, and capturing more than 30 of our soldiers and civilians in an attack across the border is a clear act of war.

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

superskippy wrote: I call a crossborder raid and rocket shelling that kills some 10 people and wounded close to 22 including 8 civilians some mauled for life, as well as kidnapping 2 others probably executing them by now, a very clear act of war. Killing, wounding, and capturing more than 30 of our soldiers and civilians in an attack across the border is a clear act of war.

I don't think you have your numbers correct, and are blurring them, in terms of time & space...

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8584 Location: Petah Tikva

The Zarit Shula cross border attack killed 4 soldiers and wounded 6 others, then as we tried to stop Hezbollah from carrying off the captured soldiers in an exchange of gunfire 5 more were killed another 6 or 7 wounded. At the same time Hezbollah began a series of rocket attacks across into Shlomi and Evan Menehem wounding another 12 civilians. Also a tank mine destroyed a tank killing four of the crew members as they crossed the border pursing the Hezbollah militants before they could escape into South Lebanon.

You can count it any way you want, 6 dead and 18 wounded and 2 captured, or 8 dead with 22 wounded and 2 captured, or 10 dead with 22 wounded and 2 captured, it is not relevent. This was an overt attack on our people, even without the rescue attempt casualties as we pursued the fleeing Hezbollah militants across the border, there are still some 6 dead Israelis and more than 16 wounded including those civilians at Shlomi and Evan Menahem.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: Really, I would call kidnapping a criminal act, nothing more!
A group that is supported by the government of a neighboring country kidnapping your soldiers is generally considered an act of war....
Of course Pearl Harbor was just simply some crazy Japanese pilots murdering Americans... that wasn't an act of war either.

Quote: yes i did start by hezbollah capturing 2 israeli soldiers but i did also mention it happened on LEBANESE soil... so it was self-defence AND..... capture!
Really? I was told they were kidnapped at an Israeli guard post.

Quote: the UN resolution was 110$ pro israel.... It didnt even mention anything abt israeli crimes and mass murdering against lebanese civilians
Pro Israel? The resolution stopped the Israeli offensive, will not disarm Hezbollah, and leaves Hezbollah with a PR victory... yes it's very pro-Israel. :roll:

Quote: and abt the number of dead people.... bring me ur most trusted source and tell me what it says... tell me how much people it says have died in lebanon???
Who knows? The problem is Israel did not fight a uniformed force, there for an AK is removed, an RPG gone, bam they are civilians again right?

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 532 Location: Beirut

Quote: At the same time Hezbollah began a series of rocket attacks across into Shlomi and Evan Menehem wounding another 12 civilians. Also a tank mine destroyed a tank killing four of the crew members as they crossed the border pursing the Hezbollah militants before they could escape into South Lebanon.

why? hezbollah was only responsible for teh death of 4 soldiers....
why did they follow the kidnappers.... they could have delt with the situation with an exchange! :S not with a losing war wich have kept the 2 soldiers 33days longer in prison....
ummm the kidnapping operation occured at 9o'clock.... the anti-kidnapping operation started at 10 o'clock.... i wonder what the words (at the same time mean in hebrew)....

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8584 Location: Petah Tikva

They are responsable for all the deaths and woundings that occured, they attacked us and kidnapped our people we had every right and obligation to try and save their lives. Hezbollah had none anything that occured in that raid was a result of their attack is on their heads. The rocket attacks wounded some 12 civilians on their own and the initial raid and firefights killed and wounded another 13 people. This is even without the attempt to rescue the kidnapped soldiers.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: why? hezbollah was only responsible for teh death of 4 soldiers....
why did they follow the kidnappers.... they could have delt with the situation with an exchange! :S not with a losing war wich have kept the 2 soldiers 33days longer in prison....
ummm the kidnapping operation occured at 9o'clock.... the anti-kidnapping operation started at 10 o'clock.... i wonder what the words (at the same time mean in hebrew)....
Do an exchange? So lets say the trade rate is 2 soldiers for 2,000 prisoners? Wow... so if Israel did do this it wouldn't really promote this sort of action by militant groups would it? Oh yeah it would.

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 532 Location: Beirut

Quote: Do an exchange? So lets say the trade rate is 2 soldiers for 2,000 prisoners? Wow... so if Israel did do this it wouldn't really promote this sort of action by militant groups would it? Oh yeah it would.

theres only 5 left lebanese prisonners in israel.... :?

anyway this war is going to cost the israeli more than just lebanese prisonners....;)

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: theres only 5 left lebanese prisonners in israel....
http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=909

Quote: Fact - The prisoner whom Hezbollah is demanding, above all others, be released, is Samir Kuntar, jailed in Israel since a 1979 attack in the northern Israeli town of Nahariyah, in which he entered an apartment and murdered three family members and an Israeli police officer.

Kuntar is quite simply a terrorist and a murderer who committed a terrible atrocity on Israeli soil. Those prisoners held in Israeli jails captured during Israel's stay in southern Lebanon are, likewise, held for terrorist offences and due to the inherent risk that they will return to their previous activities

Quote: anyway this war is going to cost the israeli more than just lebanese prisonners....
Your correct, look at the toll taken from Lebanon, Hezbollah and Israel. I guess if Lebanon enjoys rebuilding it's cities, burying its people, and supporting terrorism it should allow Hezbollah to continue to operate freely in Lebanon.

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 532 Location: Beirut

Quote: Your correct, look at the toll taken from Lebanon, Hezbollah and Israel. I guess if Lebanon enjoys rebuilding it's cities, burying its people, and supporting terrorism it should allow Hezbollah to continue to operate freely in Lebanon.

oh we got used to this...
1975 -1982-1985-1990-1993-1996-2000 and 2006!! ;)

anyway i meant israel will be OBLIGED to free palestinians and other arabs....

oh and the article abt the three family members kuntar killed.... u really made me cry here!!!
open ur eyes.... israel's average is 3babies/day 5children/day and 10adults/day.... A DAY!!!!
you come wining abt 3 killed people.... you killed 1200 civilians in lebanon who should be held for terrorist attacks???? :@

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: oh we got used to this...
1975 -1982-1985-1990-1993-1996-2000 and 2006!!

anyway i meant israel will be OBLIGED to free palestinians and other arabs....

oh and the article abt the three family members kuntar killed.... u really made me cry here!!!
open ur eyes.... israel's average is 3babies/day 5children/day and 10adults/day.... A DAY!!!!
you come wining abt 3 killed people.... you killed 1200 civilians in lebanon who should be held for terrorist attacks???? :@

Israel has no reason to release prisoners when they are faced with such violence.
Where did you get these numbers?
You know if you would get your gov rolling to stop Hezbollah you could stop rebuidling your cities right?

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8584 Location: Petah Tikva

Especially with the high crimes many of the prisoners have to their names that Hezbollah has asked for.

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 532 Location: Beirut

you cant stop or remove hezbollah....
you cant remove the people....
hezbollah crowd is close to two million people in lebanon. Hezbollah in towns and villages on the borders are mainly people who live in the village who have guns and awaits zionists attack to respond and defend the country.... so you cant just remove them... they will always be there...
why dont you give us our land and prisonners then there will be no need for hezbollah??