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learn to swim

Bush fired Rather!

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:26 am Post subject:

Sunday, Feb. 27, 2005

George Bush knew Vladimir Putin would be defensive when Bush brought up the pace of democratic reform in Russia in their private meeting at the end of Bush's four-day, three-city tour of Europe. But when Bush talked about the Kremlin's crackdown on the media and explained that democracies require a free press, the Russian leader gave a rebuttal that left the President nonplussed. If the press was so free in the U.S., Putin asked, then why had those reporters at CBS lost their jobs? Bush was openmouthed. "Putin thought we'd fired Dan Rather," says a senior Administration official. "It was like something out of 1984."

The Russians did not let the matter drop. Later, during the leaders' joint press conference, one of the questioners Putin called on asked Bush about the very same firings, a coincidence the White House assumed had been orchestrated. The odd episode reinforced the Administration's view that Putin's impressions of America are often based on urban myths fed to him by ill-informed aides. (At a past summit, according to Administration aides, Putin asked Bush whether it was true that chicken producers split their production into plants that serve the U.S. and lower-quality ones that process substandard chicken for Russia.) U.S. aides say that to help fight against this kind of misinformation, they are struggling to build relationships that go beyond Putin. "We need to go deeper into the well into other levels of government," explains an aide. --By John F. Dickerson

From the Mar. 07, 2005 issue of TIME magazine

Story Link

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

People tend to see other's actions in light of how they do things.
That's pretty funny though. :lol:

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: People tend to see other's actions in light of how they do things.
That's pretty funny though. :lol:

I am laughing but at the same time a little worried. :lol:

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

learn to swim wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: People tend to see other's actions in light of how they do things.
That's pretty funny though. :lol:

I am laughing but at the same time a little worried. :lol:
What are you worried about?

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:05 am Post subject:

psholtz wrote: learn to swim wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: People tend to see other's actions in light of how they do things.
That's pretty funny though. :lol:

I am laughing but at the same time a little worried. :lol:
What are you worried about?

That Putin is so misinformed.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

learn to swim wrote: psholtz wrote: learn to swim wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: People tend to see other's actions in light of how they do things.
That's pretty funny though. :lol:

I am laughing but at the same time a little worried. :lol:
What are you worried about?

That Putin is so misinformed.
uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh..... what's he so misinformed about?! He's telling the truth here (despite the pathetic attempt by Time Magazine to white-wash the whole thing).. U.S. administrations fire people in the press they don't like all the time (or just kill them outright)..

Let me look up some names for you, you'll see for yourself..

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:11 am Post subject:

So you think Rather was fired by Bush?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

learn to swim wrote: So you think Rather was fired by Bush?
I haven't been following that story at all, so I can't comment, sorry.

But I know for a fact that yes, reporters do get fired and that yes, reporters do die. Some reporters who were investigated Iran-Contra and who were murdered by the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence include: Paula McCollum and Keith Wickenham. There are dozens more names I could give you, but like I said, I'm digging through my notes (don't have my notes indexed according to "reporter who was murdered by..")

Besides, everyone is pretty sure that Clinton murdered (at least) Vince Foster (and possibly Ron Brown), no? :wink:

I suppose the difference here is that the president really is (for the most part) a puppet, and when ditry work needs to get done, it usually gets done w/o the presidents knowledge or authorization (unlike in other countries, like Russia).. but.. the same general pattern of suppressing the Truth in the press is very much evident here in this country (<- perhaps moreso, in some ways) as it is in other places..

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:27 am Post subject:

psholtz wrote: learn to swim wrote: So you think Rather was fired by Bush?
I haven't been following that story at all, so I can't comment, sorry.

Umm - not to sound crass - but why the hell are you commenting then?

The article is specifically about this incident. I am not commenting on the past. I am commenting on this story - which I have been following. :wink:

I appreciate the background but I am more concerned about this instance.

Eonve · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 754

learn to swim wrote: psholtz wrote: learn to swim wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: People tend to see other's actions in light of how they do things.
That's pretty funny though. :lol:

I am laughing but at the same time a little worried. :lol:
What are you worried about?

That Putin is so misinformed.

this thing is actually quite easy to explain. it's not so much about misinformation as about stereotypes and expectations. people in Russia and most of the other post-Soviet republics have come to think that the press here in the US can say whatever and don't ever have to account for truthfullness of their reports. just like ads, in a certain way. so whenever they come across such an instance when someone has made a big mistake (either intentional or not) and the mistake wsa against the president, they naturally conclude that government had something to do with it. Putin is no exception. he is a rather typical Russian man. so he thinks the same way. i doubt that it was actually the info that his advisors and ministers fed him.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

learn to swim wrote: psholtz wrote: learn to swim wrote: So you think Rather was fired by Bush?
I haven't been following that story at all, so I can't comment, sorry.

Umm - not to sound crass - but why the hell are you commenting then?

The article is specifically about this incident. I am not commenting on the past. I am commenting on this story - which I have been following. :wink:

I appreciate the background but I am more concerned about this instance.
um, not to sound crass, but your problem is that you believe the POTUS to be completely and utterly above any reproach at all, when in reality there's very little (if anything) that distinguishes the sitting POTUS from say a mob boss like John Gotti or someone..

... and no, at the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out if Dan Rather was forced out, but you're not going to be able to obtain reliable information to that effect for years, so why worry about? There are vastly huger crimes that the Administration is engaging in that should demand your attention.

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:51 am Post subject:

Why would Bush HAVE to oust him????????????????/

The story broke - was proven false and the public demanded action.

It wasn't like he broke a true story. Even DAN ADMITS it was a huge mistake and it was fake.

:lol:

Not to sound crass but your hate for government will not let you see how something REALLY is. Sometimes things just happen - without government involvement. :wink:

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

learn to swim wrote: Not to sound crass but your hate for government will not let you see how something REALLY is. Sometimes things just happen - without government involvement. :wink:
Not to sound crass, but you may want to go back to fifth grade and pick up remedial English reading skills.. Point out once, where, anywhere, in my entire history, where I've ever said that I hate the government. I don't think I've ever said that. I've said (many many times) that I love liberty, and that to ensure liberty, you need a "strong" (<- in some abstract sense) government, which is to say, you need a framework of rules and you need a framework in those rules can be enforced..

But... you can't very well have anarchy either.

And I've never said I hate the government. I hate mobsters. I hate liars. I hate criminals. I hate murderers. I hate rapists. I hate counterfeiters. And we have all these people in the very highest offices of this land. But that doesn't mean I "hate" the government.

The problem of course is that bad apples don't grow from good trees, and the tree in this country is rotten. I'm not sure if there's still a way to save it, or if we have to chop it down and start over, but the point is until you change the system (tree), you're not going to have respectable men (fruits) in office.

The biggest single positive step in this direction would be returning to a system of lawful money. Per the Constitution, only gold and silver may be used as money in this country. It'd be great to return to that system! :tu:

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21926 Location: Minnesota

Sholtz, I really do think sometimes you are the Cursed Prophetess Cassandra reincarnate.

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:09 am Post subject:

fine - clarification - you hate this administration.

Anyways - My point is that you have NO idea about this topic (admitted) and I am telling you that it is scary how misinformed Putin is about how the situation went down.

Bush had nothing to do with it. Bad reporting is rewarded with stepping down ESPECIALLY when you back it up after it has been proven false TEHN later come out and say "oops you guys were right all along". AND ESPECIALLY when it was right before and election and targeted at one of the candidates and was very damning - until it was proven false.

Rather rushed to report - it blew up in his face - he got cut.

End of story.

Putin thinks Bush pushed him out of power. He is GROSSLY misinformed.

I don't care about all the other stuff you are wishing to talk about here. Maybe in a different thread but this one is pretty simple so lets not complicate it with currency and secret government plots. Okay?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John Galt wrote: Sholtz, I really do think sometimes you are the Cursed Prophetess Cassandra reincarnate.
:lol:

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21926 Location: Minnesota

It was powerlineblog.com and littlegreenfootballs that ousted Rather, not Bush. Behold the power of the blog. Well, it's not that much. But it's enough to oust a sitting Anchor of a national news program. Putin must think only the government could have such power, not the meaningless peons the government controls. That's what it is over there... from Putin's standpoint, Bush MUST have ousted Rather. I mean, Putin does it all the time, why wouldn't Bush? Russia is a democracy, and so is the U.S.! It happens that way everywhere, right? ;-)

learn to swim · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:14 am Post subject:

John Galt wrote: It was powerlineblog.com and littlegreenfootballs that ousted Rather, not Bush. Behold the power of the blog. Well, it's not that much. But it's enough to oust a sitting Anchor of a national news program. Putin must think only the government could have such power, not the meaningless peons the government controls. That's what it is over there... from Putin's standpoint, Bush MUST have ousted Rather. I mean, Putin does it all the time, why wouldn't Bush? Russia is a democracy, and so is the U.S.! It happens that way everywhere, right? ;-)

Exactly. :lol:

renwan · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:58 am Post subject:

What has russia won with being friends with the west? And no its not wealth its:

Poverty
Homeless People(unexistant before)
Unemployed People(unexistant before)
Low Birth Rate because of Poverty
Oligarchy
1% controlling the lifes and wealth of 99%
WWII Heros dying in the streets because they cant pay an electricity bill
Electricy,Gas,Oil,Housing,Education,Healthcare in exchange of money=almost noone can have it (FREE BEFORE!)
Restriction of Liberties(Yeltsin the Tank, Putin the Money-Russian Popular saying)
"Democracy" (no its not a benefit)
High Infant Death Rate
Drugs
Mafia
Corruption
Less Economic and Social Growth
Elimination of benefits for the elderly
Benefits for the people being cutted out
Pensionist living with 35 euros per month or less...
Decrease of Water and Food consumption
Iliterate people(in USSR everyone was able to write and read in at least 2 languages..)
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

So i care less what you think of socialism, we were better off with the USSR than with the s**t hole we live in now.