Political Crossfire Forums

artk · Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 1031 Location: Portland, Oregon

Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

Yeah great idea, lets create a new medical program to suck the money out of our pockets. How about people just stop being such w***s? Maybe take a little responsibility for thier actions and have a little respect for their bodies which wouldn't cost a dime.
Nahh that would reqire people actually admitting they have the abillity to control themselves and and/or pt long term health and safety ahead of instant gratfication and we sure as hell cant expect that now can we?

Janis · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 2376 Location: new york city

Welcome aboard Curious Member!

You sure are enthusiatic!

Quote: the abillity to control themselves and and/or pt long term health and safety ahead of instant gratfication and we sure as hell cant expect that now can we?

You're on fire! Yes, I suppose some people think they are incapable of restraint. It takes a strong sense of self to achieve that. This is the problem, too many people are making too many excuses for bad behavior. Then we have to beg people to be a little more responsible for their own bodies. Thats why big money is spent on ads and medical expenses to fight the disease that continues to mutate.

Bravo!

mwm1331 · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2629

What can I say I'm weird. I no more believe we should give subsidised healthcare to those who contract aids through sex and/or neddles than those who are injured as a result of skydiving.

Tracker · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject:

artk wrote: Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

Yeah, that seems to be working well, don't it? :roll:

anti-bush2008 · Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject:

I think mandatory testing is a great idea

morph · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject:

janis wrote: I'm no prude, but this is the best argument for teaching abstinence more to teenagers. I don't have a problem with sex ed, but as a part of the curriculum they should be taken to the AIDS wing of a hospital to see what the consequences of irresponsible and unprotected sex can be...

Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility?

morph · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject:

artk wrote: Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

Most parents aren't educated enough to to this.

*edited spelling

Tracker · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject:

morph wrote: janis wrote: I'm no prude, but this is the best argument for teaching abstinence more to teenagers. I don't have a problem with sex ed, but as a part of the curriculum they should be taken to the AIDS wing of a hospital to see what the consequences of irresponsible and unprotected sex can be...

Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility?

This is the most outstanding reply to Janis' ultra-right-wing sounbite (sorry, Janis) that I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

You, Morph, worded it perfectly.

I'm saving it to my clipboard and inserting it in the 'Thread Hall of Fame.'

I'll PM you with a link later ... :hi: :clap :clap :clap

Oh, almost forgot -- how to answer this question needs be shared. I'm gonna email to a few friends -- you'll probably not get any recognition. :) Mind? :?

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6567 Location: US

morph wrote: artk wrote: Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

Most parents aren't educated enough to to this.

*edited spelling
Most parents are too busy worrying about their lives and giving their kids lorcet in their kool aid so they can go to bed at 8pm. Meanwhile, I don't want the schools teaching my daughter about sex unless I am there.I don't have a problem with my daughter knowing about sex, and all the ins and outs of it, but I guarantee she will not have sex in high school because I WILL teach her about it.

Tracker · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject:

superchick wrote: morph wrote: artk wrote: Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

Most parents aren't educated enough to to this.

*edited spelling
Most parents are too busy worrying about their lives and giving their kids lorcet in their kool aid so they can go to bed at 8pm. Meanwhile, I don't want the schools teaching my daughter about sex unless I am there.I don't have a problem with my daughter knowing about sex, and all the ins and outs of it, but I guarantee she will not have sex in high school because I WILL teach her about it.

Uh-huh ... get back to us in how-ever-many years and let us know how that works for you. :lol:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morph, here's the links to your wonderful quote:

Oh, btw, this is not a 'flame' or in anyway derogatory. I have to say that because the first time I did it on this forum, the mod deleted it -- his/her (don't recall who it was) concern was that I was making fun of people. Not true! This is a collection of the BEst of the BEST quotes. Updates are at the bottom of the post.

Facts, Not Fear:
morph wrote: Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility? -- 'morph' - 04/05
'Thread' Hall of Fame

Mirror on BlogSpot.Com

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex?
Condoms break all the time. Not a good solution. And I imagine anal sex is extremely likely to cause breakage.

Tracker · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:09 am Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex?
Condoms break all the time. Not a good solution. And I imagine anal sex is extremely likely to cause breakage.

It is a much tighter hole. :wink:

Janis · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 2376 Location: new york city

morph wrote: janis wrote: I'm no prude, but this is the best argument for teaching abstinence more to teenagers. I don't have a problem with sex ed, but as a part of the curriculum they should be taken to the AIDS wing of a hospital to see what the consequences of irresponsible and unprotected sex can be...

Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility?

I don't see the connection between driving and sex. People drive because we have to. That personal responsibility has nothing to do with ability to drive. Drinking and driving is against the law. So, yes we do take personal responsibility seriously as far as driving goes.

Having sex knowing you have aids and not telling your partner is also a crime.

I'm not against teaching kids about safe sex, but the safest sex is not to have it... Rubbers come off and break. To say if you use one and will be completely safe is not being realistic either. I wouldn't consider them "safe sex". Better than "nothing sex", but not really that safe.

They should have all the information available to them. The only way to be sure you won't get herpes, aids and all the other nasties is to only do it with someone you have really gotten to know. Sex is risky and when they decide to do it they should do it with someone that has the same self respect for their bodies as they do. Having sex just because it feels good, is not a good enough reason to go out and have it...

To be cool, or get the guy are not good reasons. It should mean more on a personal level. No, whatever anyone says will not stop kids from having sex! Do you really think that because people believe in teaching that no sex results in no pregnancies and no sexually transmitted diseases doesn't know this? That doesn't mean you should stop trying to promote it. If you get throught to anyone of them, "it's a good thing"!

Tracker · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject:

Good post, Janis.

However, I do disagree. :lol:

The 'driving' analogy is a very good one. It is about LEARNING how to be responsible.

And there are more good anologies:

Learning to become more responsible in regards to finances ...
Learning to become more responsible in regards to general ed ...
Learning to become more responsible in regards to health/weight ...
Learning to become more responsible in regards to drugs/alcohol ...
Learning to become more responsible in regards to being potty-trained ..

Humans are not born with the 'instinctual' ability to 'turn off' genetic encoding.

As we see, responsibility is LEARNED via EDUCATION and EXPERIENCE.

To claim we must 'learn' responsible behavior in EVERYTHING except sex is very closed-minded, IMHO.

To claim that there are no 'practice runs,' 'screw-ups,' or 'accidents.' along the way to 'learning' is blatant denial of the 'human-condition.'

How much 'education' keeps a pet from f***ing? Some? None? Unless 'pre-emtive action' is taken and the pet subjected to a spay or neuter, then the f***ing will continue indefinately.

Humans are still animals. Sure, we've got a 'brain' -- but it has to be 'programmed' with input that is NOT contrary to the intricacies of LIFE itself.

There's no 'switch' to flip-off when someone doesn't do what we FORCE upon them.

And claiming that a single 'lesson' will 'correct' all problems, is living in a very different alternative-reality.

After all, I've yet to read the Best-Selling self-help book, called, 'Turning Instinctual Behavior OFF -- and denying your humanity.'

Seems we'd have one of those for violence before 'love,' eh? :wink:

emmorris · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject:

morph wrote: janis wrote: I'm no prude, but this is the best argument for teaching abstinence more to teenagers. I don't have a problem with sex ed, but as a part of the curriculum they should be taken to the AIDS wing of a hospital to see what the consequences of irresponsible and unprotected sex can be...

Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility?

The problem is that the myth of "safe" sex leads teenagers to think that as long as the use a condom they are free and clear. The driving analogy is a good one, but the problem is to emphasize that birth control, like any defensive driving techniques, will not always work. In some cases one exposure to an STD is all it takes to change someone's life.

I don't advocate abstinence-only sex-ed, but people need to understand that condoms lead to safer sex.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6567 Location: US

Tracker wrote: superchick wrote: morph wrote: artk wrote: Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

Most parents aren't educated enough to to this.

*edited spelling
Most parents are too busy worrying about their lives and giving their kids lorcet in their kool aid so they can go to bed at 8pm. Meanwhile, I don't want the schools teaching my daughter about sex unless I am there.I don't have a problem with my daughter knowing about sex, and all the ins and outs of it, but I guarantee she will not have sex in high school because I WILL teach her about it.

Uh-huh ... get back to us in how-ever-many years and let us know how that works for you. :lol:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morph, here's the links to your wonderful quote:

Oh, btw, this is not a 'flame' or in anyway derogatory. I have to say that because the first time I did it on this forum, the mod deleted it -- his/her (don't recall who it was) concern was that I was making fun of people. Not true! This is a collection of the BEst of the BEST quotes. Updates are at the bottom of the post.

Facts, Not Fear:
morph wrote: Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility? -- 'morph' - 04/05
'Thread' Hall of Fame

Mirror on BlogSpot.Com

Ahhhhhh ha ha ha ha, yeah, I'm fully expecting her health teacher to have more influence over my daughter instead of me, :roll: so I'll just give her the job and give up now. :roll:
I'm laying a foundation, not producing a band aid at 14 hoping it works. Im not saying she won't have premarital sex, but high school is no place for sex, and no age. She is not emotionally ready, or smart enough at that age to handle sex. I will teach her that, and lay the foundation now to make sure at that age, she will trust me in teaching her that, as well as have the bond that will let her have faith in herself, not her peers, and what they are doing to be cool, accepted or going with the "flow". I don't care if she is educated at school. I just want to be there. (not to protest, but to add to the discussion.) I think more parents should participate in at the very least, activities such as sex education when it is taught at the school, for their kids sake!
Some of my girlfriends that have kids have thought about how to go about it for the future. Some ideas.
Blow up pictures of STDs and make huge pictures out of it. Then turn them into costumes a la 3rd grade play style and make a play about STDs, AIDs, a girl and boy that thought the person they were with "loved them"(at 15!) and left them and the emotional reprecussions, and also hopefully drawing out how silly the idea of marrying that person you "love" at 15 is, pregnancy, etc. It is corny, and we would make it corny, but enough to where they would get the message. We would have some of the actors that had STDs "burn" when they peed in the play and show it , not the "privates" but them on stage in agony over a toliet, scratching itching and having someone come up and saying they smell something like rotten fish. These are the realities. Very corny, I know, but a comedy they won't forget. I like the AIDS patient idea too.

Im not leaving the job up to someone else, the job is MINE, and my job isn't saying, hey here are some rubbers!!!!!!!

Janis · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 2376 Location: new york city

superchick wrote: Tracker wrote: superchick wrote: morph wrote: artk wrote: Its the parents job to teach children about sex, and consequences...not the schools

Most parents aren't educated enough to to this.

*edited spelling
Most parents are too busy worrying about their lives and giving their kids lorcet in their kool aid so they can go to bed at 8pm. Meanwhile, I don't want the schools teaching my daughter about sex unless I am there.I don't have a problem with my daughter knowing about sex, and all the ins and outs of it, but I guarantee she will not have sex in high school because I WILL teach her about it.

Uh-huh ... get back to us in how-ever-many years and let us know how that works for you. :lol:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morph, here's the links to your wonderful quote:

Oh, btw, this is not a 'flame' or in anyway derogatory. I have to say that because the first time I did it on this forum, the mod deleted it -- his/her (don't recall who it was) concern was that I was making fun of people. Not true! This is a collection of the BEst of the BEST quotes. Updates are at the bottom of the post.

Facts, Not Fear:
morph wrote: Why not just teach them to use a condom and have safer sex? Kids are going to do it whether or not you try and scare the crap out of them. Teach them how to be safe. On a similar note, 45k Americans die on the road each year. Are you going to tell them not to drive? Or are you going to teach them how to drive safely and hope that somebody else taught them personal responsibility? -- 'morph' - 04/05
'Thread' Hall of Fame

Mirror on BlogSpot.Com

Ahhhhhh ha ha ha ha, yeah, I'm fully expecting her health teacher to have more influence over my daughter instead of me, :roll: so I'll just give her the job and give up now. :roll:
I'm laying a foundation, not producing a band aid at 14 hoping it works. Im not saying she won't have premarital sex, but high school is no place for sex, and no age. She is not emotionally ready, or smart enough at that age to handle sex. I will teach her that, and lay the foundation now to make sure at that age, she will trust me in teaching her that, as well as have the bond that will let her have faith in herself, not her peers, and what they are doing to be cool, accepted or going with the "flow". I don't care if she is educated at school. I just want to be there. (not to protest, but to add to the discussion.) I think more parents should participate in at the very least, activities such as sex education when it is taught at the school, for their kids sake!
Some of my girlfriends that have kids have thought about how to go about it for the future. Some ideas.
Blow up pictures of STDs and make huge pictures out of it. Then turn them into costumes a la 3rd grade play style and make a play about STDs, AIDs, a girl and boy that thought the person they were with "loved them"(at 15!) and left them and the emotional reprecussions, and also hopefully drawing out how silly the idea of marrying that person you "love" at 15 is, pregnancy, etc. It is corny, and we would make it corny, but enough to where they would get the message. We would have some of the actors that had STDs "burn" when they peed in the play and show it , not the "privates" but them on stage in agony over a toliet, scratching itching and having someone come up and saying they smell something like rotten fish. These are the realities. Very corny, I know, but a comedy they won't forget. I like the AIDS patient idea too.

Im not leaving the job up to someone else, the job is MINE, and my job isn't saying, hey here are some rubbers!!!!!!!

I love it!
Quote: Blow up pictures of STDs and make huge pictures out of it. Then turn them into costumes a la 3rd grade play style and make a play :-D

You can't tip-toe around the risky sex business. Young people will listen to anything related to sex. At least the truth should be told about the consequences of having it. A maturing young man has sex on his mind. A young girl too, but for women it may be for the wrong reasons. It should be talked about freely, openly and often.

The relationship part is lost when talking about sex. The hurt that comes from a bad relationship can be physical or emotional.

Quote: We would have some of the actors that had STDs "burn" when they peed in the play

:lol: Priceless!!!

Quote: Im not leaving the job up to someone else, the job is MINE, and my job isn't saying, hey here are some rubbers!!!!!!!

Good for you! I would hope that he or she would have the knowledge by then to have made an educated decision.

Quote: Good post, Janis.

However, I do disagree. :lol:

Hey Tracker! It's been a while since I've gotten a smile from you. Why am I not shocked that you disagree?! :lol:

Tracker · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:27 am Post subject:

OMG! SuperChick -- you'd be a teacher's worst nightmare.

If I was giving a lecture and some 'concerned parent' barged in, interrupting to 'add to the discussion,' I'd call the police and have your ass arrested for trespassing and disorderly conduct. Hopefully, you'd dodge a bit to the left -- or 'give a reason' -- so they can 'make my day.' I hear those batons leave pretty marks all over a person's face. :lol:

Now, that would be the Comedy-play you'd see on COPS.

Rather more memorable than dancing STD's. :wink:

chopin1810 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 146

It's not a bad idea.