Political Crossfire Forums

[Voice of Reason]

PM defies Bush over China arms

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12222671-401,00.html

THE Howard Government has defied US efforts to dissuade the European Union from lifting its 15-year arms embargo on China, which Washington fears will transform the balance of power in the Taiwan Strait.

The decision by Australia to rebuff the joint private and public lobbying by the US and Japan is the most serious strategic disagreement between Washington and Canberra in recent years.

[Nico]

I'm just curious how an article about Australia /China /US relations produces a statement like this;
One US official was quoted in the European press this week as saying: "We are talking about the Europeans making it easier for the Chinese to kill Americans." It seemed superfluous to the author's point.


As for Australia, China is a major trading partner, no doubt there is a lot of forethought by John Howard and his team before they make any statement that could be viewed negatively by the over-sensitive Chinese authorities.

I think it does show economic pragmatism in action.

[res ipsa]

Anaximander wrote: I'm just curious how an article about Australia /China /US relations produces a statement like this;
One US official was quoted in the European press this week as saying: "We are talking about the Europeans making it easier for the Chinese to kill Americans." It seemed superfluous to the author's point.


As for Australia, China is a major trading partner, no doubt there is a lot of forethought by John Howard and his team before they make any statement that could be viewed negatively by the over-sensitive Chinese authorities.

I think it does show economic pragmatism in action.

Stepping out of the topic as an aside, love the pic Anax. What a great movie!
Stanfield (Oldman) steals the show as he always does.

[Nico]

res ipsa wrote: What a great movie!
Stanfield (Oldman) steals the show as he always does.

Yeah :)
I must have seen it fifty times.

[Nico]

How do you feel about the topic Res? Do you think Howards actions carry the weight implied by the article?

[eynon]

Anaximander wrote: I'm just curious how an article about Australia /China /US relations produces a statement like this;
One US official was quoted in the European press this week as saying: "We are talking about the Europeans making it easier for the Chinese to kill Americans." It seemed superfluous to the author's point.


As for Australia, China is a major trading partner, no doubt there is a lot of forethought by John Howard and his team before they make any statement that could be viewed negatively by the over-sensitive Chinese authorities.

I think it does show economic pragmatism in action.

that makes a lot of sense....Aussie aggriculture is becoming a major Chinese import. But still the idea of selling advanced weapons tech to the Chinese military is not what I view as the brightest of notions.

As to the overly sensitive Chinese authorities...it's all an act(this is a society where he who screams the loudest wins). Personally I think it's time the Western Democracies stopped coddeling the beast and make it grow up a bit.

[Nico]

Eynon81 wrote:
As to the overly sensitive Chinese authorities...it's all an act(this is a society where he who screams the loudest wins). Personally I think it's time the Western Democracies stopped coddeling the beast and make it grow up a bit.


The main problem is that from the outside, they do give the impression of power I think, and unpredictable power at that.

How much leverage can one have over a society that large? What are their weaknesses?

[eynon]

Anaximander wrote: Eynon81 wrote:
As to the overly sensitive Chinese authorities...it's all an act(this is a society where he who screams the loudest wins). Personally I think it's time the Western Democracies stopped coddeling the beast and make it grow up a bit.


The main problem is that from the outside, they do give the impression of power I think, and unpredictable power at that.

How much leverage can one have over a society that large? What are their weaknesses?

the king of all weaknesses in terms of China is that their economic future hinges entirley on keeping in the good graces of the western market. They have a huge export orintent economy(I sign all my e-mails "from Walmart's Factory Floor"), while at the same time their finacial markets depend on foriegn investment stemming mostly from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, North America and Europe.
If the North American market was denied to them or the Japanese stopped backing them financially then the Chinese economy would be in for a very bad ride.
Personally I believe the reasons everyone is still sucking up to China is that everybody in power is making so much money off the current arangment that nobody wants to upset the statis-quo. That's my theory anyway...that or people are just ignorant about how sensative the Chinese really are(as in they're not), but honestly I'm not really sure :?

[Nico]

Eynon81 wrote: Anaximander wrote: Eynon81 wrote:
As to the overly sensitive Chinese authorities...it's all an act(this is a society where he who screams the loudest wins). Personally I think it's time the Western Democracies stopped coddeling the beast and make it grow up a bit.


The main problem is that from the outside, they do give the impression of power I think, and unpredictable power at that.

How much leverage can one have over a society that large? What are their weaknesses?

the king of all weaknesses in terms of China is that their economic future hinges entirley on keeping in the good graces of the western market. They have a huge export orintent economy(I sign all my e-mails "from Walmart's Factory Floor"), while at the same time their finacial markets depend on foriegn investment stemming mostly from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, North America and Europe.
If the North American market was denied to them or the Japanese stopped backing them financially then the Chinese economy would be in for a very bad ride.
Personally I believe the reasons everyone is still sucking up to China is that everybody in power is making so much money off the current arangment that nobody wants to upset the statis-quo. That's my theory anyway...that or people are just ignorant about how sensative the Chinese really are(as in they're not), but honestly I'm not really sure :?


Status quo equals stability, equals predictable profits and financial movement. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable supposition to me. :wink:

So the Chinese have to feed their vilification of Japan's past deeds to the Chinese public, and keep Japan in the loop as well? Sounds like quite a juggling act!

[eynon]

Anaximander wrote: Eynon81 wrote: Anaximander wrote: Eynon81 wrote:
As to the overly sensitive Chinese authorities...it's all an act(this is a society where he who screams the loudest wins). Personally I think it's time the Western Democracies stopped coddeling the beast and make it grow up a bit.


The main problem is that from the outside, they do give the impression of power I think, and unpredictable power at that.

How much leverage can one have over a society that large? What are their weaknesses?

the king of all weaknesses in terms of China is that their economic future hinges entirley on keeping in the good graces of the western market. They have a huge export orintent economy(I sign all my e-mails "from Walmart's Factory Floor"), while at the same time their finacial markets depend on foriegn investment stemming mostly from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, North America and Europe.
If the North American market was denied to them or the Japanese stopped backing them financially then the Chinese economy would be in for a very bad ride.
Personally I believe the reasons everyone is still sucking up to China is that everybody in power is making so much money off the current arangment that nobody wants to upset the statis-quo. That's my theory anyway...that or people are just ignorant about how sensative the Chinese really are(as in they're not), but honestly I'm not really sure :?


Status quo equals stability, equals predictable profits and financial movement. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable supposition to me. :wink:

So the Chinese have to feed their vilification of Japan's past deeds to the Chinese public, and keep Japan in the loop as well? Sounds like quite a juggling act!

the Chinese people are very accepting of what their goverment tells them....my big problem with the status quo is that it basically screws everybody who is not either a member of a corrupt goverment establishment or part of a huge multinational company......sigh, makes me very glad I was born in the country I was born in :wink:

[desaview]

[quote="Eynon81"] Anaximander wrote: Eynon81 wrote: Anaximander wrote: Eynon81 wrote:
As to the overly sensitive Chinese authorities...it's all an act(this is a society where he who screams the loudest wins). Personally I think it's time the Western Democracies stopped coddeling the beast and make it grow up a bit.


The main problem is that from the outside, they do give the impression of power I think, and unpredictable power at that.

How much leverage can one have over a society that large? What are their weaknesses?

the king of all weaknesses in terms of China is that their economic future hinges entirley on keeping in the good graces of the western market. They have a huge export orintent economy(I sign all my e-mails "from Walmart's Factory Floor"), while at the same time their finacial markets depend on foriegn investment stemming mostly from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, North America and Europe.
If the North American market was denied to them or the Japanese stopped backing them financially then the Chinese economy would be in for a very bad ride.
Personally I believe the reasons everyone is still sucking up to China is that everybody in power is making so much money off the current arangment that nobody wants to upset the statis-quo. That's my theory anyway...that or people are just ignorant about how sensative the Chinese really are(as in they're not), but honestly I'm not really sure :?


Status quo equals stability, equals predictable profits and financial movement. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable supposition to me. :wink:

So the Chinese have to feed their vilification of Japan's past deeds to the Chinese public, and keep Japan in the loop as well? Sounds like quite a juggling act!
staying in China, I am surprised you do not agree China is a danger to no one (ecept its citizens)/ But on the other hand, Chinese has justified to believe they already have the best government possible for China.x

t