Political Crossfire Forums

kippls · Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Africa

The UN could be doing a lot more and thats a given fact. Also you made some points that I find a little false

Quote: * The UN and its agencies have improved the health of millions – immunizing the world's children, fighting malaria and parasitic disease, providing safe drinking water and protecting consumers' health. As a result, longevity and life expectancy have increased worldwide.
How do you fight malaria? In the us we spread DTD which killed all the Mosquitoes. Or maybe you can give out expensive malaria pills to the public. I live in west Africa and all of the "safe" drink water that has been given to the public is bottled water. Several groups (mostly religious organizations) have given local villages water pumps. The United Nations has not done so.
Quote: * More international law has been developed through the UN in the past five decades than in the entire previous history of humankind.

International laws that are largely ignored by the general public. We can write down all the words we want but what is that going to accomplish?

Also the United Nations peace keepers are known for their great job helping the spread of AIDS in the great lakes region of Africa. They did this by raping many women and girls.

Now don't get me wrong, the United Nations has done great things for the world, but that doesn't give it the excuse of messing up.

Just my two bits in this fight.

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

kippls wrote: The UN could be doing a lot more and thats a given fact.

:clap: :clap: I could not agree with you more. I am not going to sit here and be a blind follower to the UN, they have and as with all organizations continue to have failures. However this also points out the tremendous potential of the UN and the need for all of us to try and reach this potential.

Quote: Quote: * The UN and its agencies have improved the health of millions – immunizing the world's children, fighting malaria and parasitic disease, providing safe drinking water and protecting consumers' health. As a result, longevity and life expectancy have increased worldwide.
How do you fight malaria? In the us we spread DTD which killed all the Mosquitoes. Or maybe you can give out expensive malaria pills to the public. I live in west Africa and all of the "safe" drink water that has been given to the public is bottled water. Several groups (mostly religious organizations) have given local villages water pumps. The United Nations has not done so.

first off do you live in the US or in West Africa, either way you are out of the epicentre of Malaria the number one contributor to extreme poverty.

I have worked for the UN, mostly in the Sub Saharan Region in Uganda, Malawi and Mali. All three areas have been very hard hit by Malaria as I am sure you know. Here are the policies I know that we used. The biggest one was the use of bed nets, this was probably the most cost effective method we found, and in definitely helped reduce the spread of malaria through mosquitos (obviously it can't eliminate it). Another important tool that the WHO (world health organization - a branch of the UN) and UNESCO (UN Education Scientific and Cultural organization) jointly worked on was educating the public (mostly local leaders) on how they can work to prevent the spread of malaria. Near the end of my work with the UN we did help build some water pumps for local villages but as I am sure even in west Africa you know that these do not last long, the most important thing falls back with the WHO and UNESCO in educating these people on where to find places for wells and how to build them.

Quote: Quote: * More international law has been developed through the UN in the past five decades than in the entire previous history of humankind.

International laws that are largely ignored by the general public. We can write down all the words we want but what is that going to accomplish?

Also the United Nations peace keepers are known for their great job helping the spread of AIDS in the great lakes region of Africa. They did this by raping many women and girls.

Now don't get me wrong, the United Nations has done great things for the world, but that doesn't give it the excuse of messing up.

Just my two bits in this fight.

true there is a lot of international law that is largely ignored or unenforced, however we also recognize deviance before we recognize obedience. We will always pay attention to the number of laws that are not followed. The fact is that diplomacy does have a significant impact and countries will typically try to follow these laws.

As for the UN peacekeepers, well there INDIVIDUAL actions are unequsable however they certainly didn't make any large impact in spreading AIDS. The actions of a few individuals with individuals who likely already had AIDS will not make any difference in the AIDS prevalence in a nation of millions.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alexander The Great · Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject:

Either this way or the other, the UN is just a name, not a real force.
Just a powerless name.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Alexander The Great wrote: Either this way or the other, the UN is just a name, not a real force.
Just a powerless name.

Very ture, but the UN isnt only a force.

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Alexander The Great wrote: Either this way or the other, the UN is just a name, not a real force.
Just a powerless name.

Alexander the role of the UN is not to be a "force", its major accomplishments occur in the areas that prevent the root causes of war, those being poverty, disease, hunger, health and education.

However the UN does have more power than you probably think, for example the WTO which is a branch of the UN has as much power as most powerful nations when it comes to trade disputes

Alexander The Great · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:50 am Post subject:

Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Either this way or the other, the UN is just a name, not a real force.
Just a powerless name.

Alexander the role of the UN is not to be a "force", its major accomplishments occur in the areas that prevent the root causes of war, those being poverty, disease, hunger, health and education.

However the UN does have more power than you probably think, for example the WTO which is a branch of the UN has as much power as most powerful nations when it comes to trade disputes

You know good as I'm that no one cares, my country is an example, and I support it, and the Humane things in Saudi Arabia are very well noticed, and if they're, no one in Saudi Arabia puts a damn, the same as in Iran, Jordan, Egypt, etc.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Nobody care about humane activities of the UN...Really????

Alexander The Great · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject:

Canada_rocks wrote: Nobody care about humane activities of the UN...Really????

So why don't you put sanctions against those countries?

It's known for years that they cut hands, kill gays, kidnapping non muslims, etc.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject:

Canada_rocks wrote: Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Sanction isn't necessarily war, it can be also trade...

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Sanction isn't necessarily war, it can be also trade...

...And that Alexander is why the name of this thread is United Nations Reform. I think everyone here can agree it needs to be overhauled. It's you that think it should be dipanded. Your from Israel right? Im sorry to say but how long do you think America will be able to back up your nation? Adventually you are going to need to grow some balls yourself and handle your own business (Israel..not you yourself)..Or turn to the UN if things go sour.
I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:16 pm Post subject:

Canada_rocks wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Sanction isn't necessarily war, it can be also trade...

...And that Alexander is why the name of this thread is United Nations Reform. I think everyone here can agree it needs to be overhauled. It's you that think it should be dipanded. Your from Israel right? Im sorry to say but how long do you think America will be able to back up your nation? Adventually you are going to need to grow some balls yourself and handle your own business (Israel..not you yourself)..Or turn to the UN if things go sour.
I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I also think this way, but, that's why we develop our army and air force, isn't it? :wink:

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Yes, wed really like to see Israel go up against Iran and other middle east states. Sorry, the only reason you are still on the map is becasue of the US. So dont count the UN out so quickly.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject:

Canada_rocks wrote: Yes, wed really like to see Israel go up against Iran and other middle east states. Sorry, the only reason you are still on the map is becasue of the US. So dont count the UN out so quickly.

Yeah, I know the UN made a decision that we don't have the right of existence, so you know what, the UN can flip me.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

HWn did the Un say you didnt have the right to exist? that doesnt sound very 'UN' to me.

Alexander The Great · Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:16 am Post subject:

Canada_rocks wrote: HWn did the Un say you didnt have the right to exist? that doesnt sound very 'UN' to me.

Don't you know?

The Arab countries passed a decision that Zionism is racism, so, that's saying that we're a racist country, that led to decision in many people, snarf for example that we have no right of existence.

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: HWn did the Un say you didnt have the right to exist? that doesnt sound very 'UN' to me.

Don't you know?

The Arab countries passed a decision that Zionism is racism, so, that's saying that we're a racist country, that led to decision in many people, snarf for example that we have no right of existence.

Alexander your making a gross misunderstanding that happens far too much nowadays. This decision was only a group of statements made by arab countries who are members of the UN, in the extreme case there may have been a statement made at the UN by a member state regarding this, the UN however has never as a whole said that Israel has no right to exist, this would require a formal resolution. I have heard you make this statement numerous times before and it is entirely false. Unless of course you can find a UN resolution in which it is stated that Israel has no right to exist.

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Sanction isn't necessarily war, it can be also trade...

...And that Alexander is why the name of this thread is United Nations Reform. I think everyone here can agree it needs to be overhauled. It's you that think it should be dipanded. Your from Israel right? Im sorry to say but how long do you think America will be able to back up your nation? Adventually you are going to need to grow some balls yourself and handle your own business (Israel..not you yourself)..Or turn to the UN if things go sour.
I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I also think this way, but, that's why we develop our army and air force, isn't it? :wink:

you, me and everybody on this forum know that the only reason Israel has as strong a military as it does is because of the US. I believe Israel gets more aid than any other nation in the world from the US, this aid is almost entirely in the form of military aid. The Israeli air force is made up of american planes. Should Israel be attacked now by the Arab world Israel would surely collapse without the support of the Americans. Irregardless the US will not back up on their support for Israel anytime soon.

Chris29 · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2534 Location: Calgary, Canada

Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Sanction isn't necessarily war, it can be also trade...

actually sanctions is never war, it may be a prelude to war but Sanctions and War are to polar opposites, what Canada_rocks was trying to say I think is that placing sanctions on these countries would lead to war. Irregardless Alexander in order for the UN to place sanctions on any of these countries it would require the approval of the UN security council without a veto vote placed. Politically this would never happen as the arab world is rich with blood and political alliances are rampant with the arab world because of this. Heck even the US would veto a sanction against those countries.