Political Crossfire Forums

[Alexander The Great]

Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Canada_rocks wrote: Becasue the world isnt meant to be a war zone. How many wars do you think the UN would be fighting if they went after everyone? By the way, it's china that veto sudan..not the UN. Ifs often the G7 veto abilities that screw over action.

Sanction isn't necessarily war, it can be also trade...

...And that Alexander is why the name of this thread is United Nations Reform. I think everyone here can agree it needs to be overhauled. It's you that think it should be dipanded. Your from Israel right? Im sorry to say but how long do you think America will be able to back up your nation? Adventually you are going to need to grow some balls yourself and handle your own business (Israel..not you yourself)..Or turn to the UN if things go sour.
I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I also think this way, but, that's why we develop our army and air force, isn't it? :wink:

you, me and everybody on this forum know that the only reason Israel has as strong a military as it does is because of the US. I believe Israel gets more aid than any other nation in the world from the US, this aid is almost entirely in the form of military aid. The Israeli air force is made up of american planes. Should Israel be attacked now by the Arab world Israel would surely collapse without the support of the Americans. Irregardless the US will not back up on their support for Israel anytime soon.

So, how did we won our independence war?
50000 against 1.5 million?

And, our airforce is largely produced here, we have gigantic air force production.

[Nico]

Alexander The Great wrote:
So, how did we won our independence war?
50000 against 1.5 million?



In fact, the Arab forces were inferior to the IDF. By mid-May 1948 the IDF was fielding 65,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. Of the Arab aircraft, only less than a dozen fighters and three to four bombers saw action, the rest were unserviceable. With only a dozen or so airplanes the IDF achieved air superiority by the fall of 1948. And the IDF had superiority in firepower and knowledgeable personnel, many of whom had seen action in WWII. Source: "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001", Benny Morris (2001), pp. 217-18.

edit cause I can't find damn link

[Alexander The Great]

Anaximander wrote: Alexander The Great wrote:
So, how did we won our independence war?
50000 against 1.5 million?



In fact, the Arab forces were inferior to the IDF. By mid-May 1948 the IDF was fielding 65,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. Of the Arab aircraft, only less than a dozen fighters and three to four bombers saw action, the rest were unserviceable. With only a dozen or so airplanes the IDF achieved air superiority by the fall of 1948. And the IDF had superiority in firepower and knowledgeable personnel, many of whom had seen action in WWII. Source: "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001", Benny Morris (2001), pp. 217-18.

edit cause I can't find damn link

I preffer to hear the History from my grandparents who actuallt fought the war, and not books.

[thundertaker]

Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Alexander The Great wrote:
So, how did we won our independence war?
50000 against 1.5 million?



In fact, the Arab forces were inferior to the IDF. By mid-May 1948 the IDF was fielding 65,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. Of the Arab aircraft, only less than a dozen fighters and three to four bombers saw action, the rest were unserviceable. With only a dozen or so airplanes the IDF achieved air superiority by the fall of 1948. And the IDF had superiority in firepower and knowledgeable personnel, many of whom had seen action in WWII. Source: "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001", Benny Morris (2001), pp. 217-18.

edit cause I can't find damn link

I preffer to hear the History from my grandparents who actuallt fought the war, and not books.

Your grandparents may be useful as a primary source, but you have to beware of their potential bias and the fact that they did not have access to the bigger picture at the time (unless they were really high up in the chain of command), unlike a historian who has done in-depth research into historical records and accounts from various sources....

[Alexander The Great]

thundertaker wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Alexander The Great wrote:
So, how did we won our independence war?
50000 against 1.5 million?



In fact, the Arab forces were inferior to the IDF. By mid-May 1948 the IDF was fielding 65,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. Of the Arab aircraft, only less than a dozen fighters and three to four bombers saw action, the rest were unserviceable. With only a dozen or so airplanes the IDF achieved air superiority by the fall of 1948. And the IDF had superiority in firepower and knowledgeable personnel, many of whom had seen action in WWII. Source: "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001", Benny Morris (2001), pp. 217-18.

edit cause I can't find damn link

I preffer to hear the History from my grandparents who actuallt fought the war, and not books.

Your grandparents may be useful as a primary source, but you have to beware of their potential bias and the fact that they did not have access to the bigger picture at the time (unless they were really high up in the chain of command), unlike a historian who has done in-depth research into historical records and accounts from various sources....

One of them was, each one of other region.
My grandfather from the mother side of the Negeb, and my grandfather from the father side wasn't high in command, but he was at manny battles at the north, at the biggest strike of the Syrians, and both tell me that the Arabs outnumbered them, but they had lacks in planing.
I didn't agree about numbers...

[Alexander The Great]

thundertaker wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Alexander The Great wrote:
So, how did we won our independence war?
50000 against 1.5 million?



In fact, the Arab forces were inferior to the IDF. By mid-May 1948 the IDF was fielding 65,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. Of the Arab aircraft, only less than a dozen fighters and three to four bombers saw action, the rest were unserviceable. With only a dozen or so airplanes the IDF achieved air superiority by the fall of 1948. And the IDF had superiority in firepower and knowledgeable personnel, many of whom had seen action in WWII. Source: "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001", Benny Morris (2001), pp. 217-18.

edit cause I can't find damn link

I preffer to hear the History from my grandparents who actuallt fought the war, and not books.

Your grandparents may be useful as a primary source, but you have to beware of their potential bias and the fact that they did not have access to the bigger picture at the time (unless they were really high up in the chain of command), unlike a historian who has done in-depth research into historical records and accounts from various sources....

Oh, tehy were in many battles, and they were those one of them was a massanger, so he knew everything...

[Nico]

Benny Morris is a fairly well known Jewish historian. It might be worth giving him some credit.

[sage]

U.N is politically weak because its elite member countries have vested interests and will often fail to act even when the cause is just. more to the point the countries are reluctant to send any kind of altruistic aid whatsoever to regions that are irrelevant to their interests.for U.N to have true power a way must be found so that it becomes legally binding on its member states(including those who have veto powers) to act on certain situations, say with military assistance in case of a genocide, or humanitarian aid in case of national/international calamity.whether this is possible is up to debate, but it is the only way.

[Alexander The Great]

Anaximander wrote: Benny Morris is a fairly well known Jewish historian. It might be worth giving him some credit.

Why should I care wether he's a Jew or not?
You know what's very typical to those writers?
When they meet someone who've actually been there, he knows more than them...

[Chris29]

Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Benny Morris is a fairly well known Jewish historian. It might be worth giving him some credit.

Why should I care wether he's a Jew or not?
You know what's very typical to those writers?
When they meet someone who've actually been there, he knows more than them...

Alexander if what you are saying is in fact true surely you will be able to find some statistics in favor of your side. Especially seeing as how Israel was on the winning side of this conflict you would think the statistics would favor your story.

We all know that the truth gets grossly stretched in times of war, maybe you should just accept this in the face of true statistics. :roll:

[Chris29]

sage wrote: U.N is politically weak because its elite member countries have vested interests and will often fail to act even when the cause is just. more to the point the countries are reluctant to send any kind of altruistic aid whatsoever to regions that are irrelevant to their interests.for U.N to have true power a way must be found so that it becomes legally binding on its member states(including those who have veto powers) to act on certain situations, say with military assistance in case of a genocide, or humanitarian aid in case of national/international calamity.whether this is possible is up to debate, but it is the only way.

if member states are unwilling to send aid to regions of no political interest explain to me why there is aid being sent to so many regions in africa. better yet explain to me the existence of the UN Millennium Development Goals to end extreme poverty.

[Alexander The Great]

Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Benny Morris is a fairly well known Jewish historian. It might be worth giving him some credit.

Why should I care wether he's a Jew or not?
You know what's very typical to those writers?
When they meet someone who've actually been there, he knows more than them...

Alexander if what you are saying is in fact true surely you will be able to find some statistics in favor of your side. Especially seeing as how Israel was on the winning side of this conflict you would think the statistics would favor your story.

We all know that the truth gets grossly stretched in times of war, maybe you should just accept this in the face of true statistics. :roll:


My point is, that it can't be that the Historian got a different story than those who've actually been there.

[Chris29]

Alexander The Great wrote: Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Benny Morris is a fairly well known Jewish historian. It might be worth giving him some credit.

Why should I care wether he's a Jew or not?
You know what's very typical to those writers?
When they meet someone who've actually been there, he knows more than them...

Alexander if what you are saying is in fact true surely you will be able to find some statistics in favor of your side. Especially seeing as how Israel was on the winning side of this conflict you would think the statistics would favor your story.

We all know that the truth gets grossly stretched in times of war, maybe you should just accept this in the face of true statistics. :roll:


My point is, that it can't be that the Historian got a different story than those who've actually been there.

and my point is this, that it is the winner who gets to tell the story, so if Israel won and the story is saying this then it is pretty obvious what the truth is. Besides most historians base their facts on concrete evidence

[Alexander The Great]

Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Chris29 wrote: Alexander The Great wrote: Anaximander wrote: Benny Morris is a fairly well known Jewish historian. It might be worth giving him some credit.

Why should I care wether he's a Jew or not?
You know what's very typical to those writers?
When they meet someone who've actually been there, he knows more than them...

Alexander if what you are saying is in fact true surely you will be able to find some statistics in favor of your side. Especially seeing as how Israel was on the winning side of this conflict you would think the statistics would favor your story.

We all know that the truth gets grossly stretched in times of war, maybe you should just accept this in the face of true statistics. :roll:


My point is, that it can't be that the Historian got a different story than those who've actually been there.

and my point is this, that it is the winner who gets to tell the story, so if Israel won and the story is saying this then it is pretty obvious what the truth is. Besides most historians base their facts on concrete evidence

But still, I guess that those who've been there know much more than a Historian...