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Eonve
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 754
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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thundertaker wrote: Those European countries mentioned are pretty secure, They're not living in fear of Islamic extremism, invasion (except maybe Finland hypothetically) or other kinds of terrorism within their borders. As for technical achievement, well, generally it's the individual engineers and inventors and/or the companies that come up with them that profit from new innovations, which are then released for worldwide consumption.....
but you are forgetting about one important thing. even those countries are stable and secure, they themselves are not the source of either stability or security. if it was not for the powerful neighbors who choose to extend protection to them, they would be much worse off. the only reason they don't have anything to fear is because they are surrounded by friendly, democratic, civilized European powers from whom they benefit immensely. whatever their achievements are, they should receive only the partial credit for them. Germany, France and Italy would still be well if Switzerland have disaapeared all of a sudden or turned hostile. However, if Germany, France and Italy either disappeared or turned hostile and decided to invade Switzerland, what would happen to the stability, prosperity and security of that great successful country? |
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thundertaker
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 12036
Location: The right side of the Pennines (Lancashire)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Eonve wrote: thundertaker wrote: Those European countries mentioned are pretty secure, They're not living in fear of Islamic extremism, invasion (except maybe Finland hypothetically) or other kinds of terrorism within their borders. As for technical achievement, well, generally it's the individual engineers and inventors and/or the companies that come up with them that profit from new innovations, which are then released for worldwide consumption.....
but you are forgetting about one important thing. even those countries are stable and secure, they themselves are not the source of either stability or security. if it was not for the powerful neighbors who choose to extend protection to them, they would be much worse off. the only reason they don't have anything to fear is because they are surrounded by friendly, democratic, civilized European powers from whom they benefit immensely. whatever their achievements are, they should receive only the partial credit for them. Germany, France and Italy would still be well if Switzerland have disaapeared all of a sudden or turned hostile. However, if Germany, France and Italy either disappeared or turned hostile and decided to invade Switzerland, what would happen to the stability, prosperity and security of that great successful country?
Fair point. Still, I wouldn't have minded being a citizen of one of those countries...... |
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Secondary Oak
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 3393
Location: Haifa
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:10 am Post subject: |
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thundertaker wrote: Secondary Oak wrote: I don't know about other countries, but I assume they have a system similar to Israel's, in which the country helps fund non-profit scientific institutes.
Don't know about that, does the Israeli government take a slice of the royalties or something?
Obviously not. Didn't I mention "non-profit"? |
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escoria
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Miami
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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i think a very important factor in the success of a nation is the mindset and values of the citizens.
a perfect example of this would be costa rica. while they are not a "powerful" nation, they have enjoyed uninterrupted democracy for over 100 years, have the strongest economy in central america, an ever growing middle class and a decent standard of living.
this is a heavily catholic country, with very conservative values and a strong sense of freedom and democracy. they don't have great natural resources and have a small # in population.
they are a more stable nation than many powerful governments. |
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zelda
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1147
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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ET Brit, my definition of successful in this particular case would be the standard of living of the people.for me a nation is successful if its people are satisfied and not if it's a great military power or if it has thousands of great artists and writers...and, yes i've been to switzerland.
Eonve, you were just laughing at me as usual. |
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Eonve
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 754
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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zelda wrote: Eonve, you were just laughing at me as usual.
i am amazed. you got it! way to go, zelda! you have to lighten up. don't take me or anyone else too seriously. after all, if most of us were serious about stuff we talk about, we would not be on this forum. we would be somewhere else, changing this world and shaping it in a way we like it. this is not a place for people to do something worthwhile. it's just enetertainment and a waste of time that could have been used for much more productive and meaningful purposes. |
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zelda
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1147
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Eonve wrote: zelda wrote: Eonve, you were just laughing at me as usual.
i am amazed. you got it! way to go, zelda! you have to lighten up. don't take me or anyone else too seriously. after all, if most of us were serious about stuff we talk about, we would not be on this forum. we would be somewhere else, changing this world and shaping it in a way we like it. this is not a place for people to do something worthwhile. it's just enetertainment and a waste of time that could have been used for much more productive and meaningful purposes.
always a pleasure to talk to you! i don't take these seriously but every time i say something, no matter how insignificant, you have to jump and remind me how very ignorant and dumb i am. you must be a very bugging person, something like a mother or i don't know....
and besides, as far as i saw you're one of the most serious guys in here and solemn. ah, nevermind it may just go away.. |
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Eonve
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 754
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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zelda wrote: always a pleasure to talk to you! i don't take these seriously but every time i say something, no matter how insignificant, you have to jump and remind me how very ignorant and dumb i am.
that's true. i have a habit of treating people like that. most of them don't like it, but i am too lazy to care about them. sorry if you don't like it. but it's kinda too late for me to change my habits and i don't want to anyway. i love myself the way i am.
Quote: and besides, as far as i saw you're one of the most serious guys in here and solemn. ah, nevermind it may just go away..
well, we all have favorite roles we like to play. besides, nothing is black and white. i too have my internal contradictions and controversies. sometimes i really start caring about things, about people (not in particular, but in general), about this world, mankind, politics. but than i see how dumb everyone is and i think: "if these people are too stupid to care about themselves and each other, why should i care about them? would it not be better to let them die like dogs, as they deserve?" then i go into depression, drink a lot, read a lot of Nietzsche. but eventually things get better and i start caring about this f***ing world once again. this is the cycle of my life.
there are three conflicting sets of beliefs that i hold. all of them are dear to me, and i can not stick with just one. they are exemplified by three different people: Richelieu, Robespierre and Nietzsche.
1. Richelieu - power, glory, greatness, achievement.
2. Robespierre - freedom, selflessness, service, sacrifice, rebellion.
3. Nietzsche - power (but not like Richelieu), indifference, supremacy, loneliness, self-centeredness, self-indulgence.
i like them all, and sometimes one of them dominates my thought and behavior, but in the end, it's more of a combination of all three. and i am not a schizophrenic (just to clarify things, it's the concepts that i follow that are represented by different people, not different personalities inside my head). |
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zelda
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1147
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Eonve wrote: zelda wrote: always a pleasure to talk to you! i don't take these seriously but every time i say something, no matter how insignificant, you have to jump and remind me how very ignorant and dumb i am.
that's true. i have a habit of treating people like that. most of them don't like it, but i am too lazy to care about them. sorry if you don't like it. but it's kinda too late for me to change my habits and i don't want to anyway. i love myself the way i am.
:)) oh, no, don't change! i'm sure you're very fine the way you are but just out of curiosity, can you count on the fingers of one hand the people you hang out with?
Quote: and besides, as far as i saw you're one of the most serious guys in here and solemn. ah, nevermind it may just go away..
well, we all have favorite roles we like to play. besides, nothing is black and white.[/quote]
and when i said that, it was wrong!
Eonve wrote: i too have my internal contradictions and controversies. sometimes i really start caring about things, about people (not in particular, but in general), about this world, mankind, politics. but than i see how dumb everyone is and i think: "if these people are too stupid to care about themselves and each other, why should i care about them? would it not be better to let them die like dogs, as they deserve?" then i go into depression, drink a lot, read a lot of Nietzsche. but eventually things get better and i start caring about this f***ing world once again. this is the cycle of my life.
how come you're the only one in the world possesing so much knowledge about everything? but anyway i really think you should continue to try to save us, don't let stupid (and many) people or arguments stand in your way.
Eonve wrote: there are three conflicting sets of beliefs that i hold. all of them are dear to me, and i can not stick with just one. they are exemplified by three different people: Richelieu, Robespierre and Nietzsche.
1. Richelieu - power, glory, greatness, achievement.
2. Robespierre - freedom, selflessness, service, sacrifice, rebellion.
3. Nietzsche - power (but not like Richelieu), indifference, supremacy, loneliness, self-centeredness, self-indulgence.
i like them all, and sometimes one of them dominates my thought and behavior, but in the end, it's more of a combination of all three. and i am not a schizophrenic (just to clarify things, it's the concepts that i follow that are represented by different people, not different personalities inside my head).
it's good that you've clarified this for me because otherwise i might have thought you were. it's strange that there are still people who admire so strongly these guys, they were so damn lonely.
i usually tend to admire more humane people. |
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Eonve
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 754
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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zelda wrote:
:)) oh, no, don't change! i'm sure you're very fine the way you are but just out of curiosity, can you count on the fingers of one hand the people you hang out with?
it depends on what you mean when you say hang out. you know, my idea of it might be very different from yours. there are a lot of people that i know and regularly spend time with. there bunch of people that i eat lunch with once in a while. there are some who i love to discuss political theories with. there are some who i like to get drunk with. does not mean that i consider all of them to be my friends, or anything. but i was free to choose anything i want, i would get away from all those people and would live alone up in the mountains. i like doing stuff for people and helping them, but i hate being around people for a long time. i get tired of human kind.
Quote: and when i said that, it was wrong!
did you say that? strange, cause i do not have any recollection of that whatsoever.
Quote: how come you're the only one in the world possesing so much knowledge about everything?
that's what i spend my life on. learning, knowing, thinking, reading, thinking again. i do not care for the most things normal people care for (like family, friends, job, pleasure, leisure, rest). Cogito, ergo sum.
Quote: but anyway i really think you should continue to try to save us, don't let stupid (and many) people or arguments stand in your way.
thanks. may be i will, may be i will not. probably both.
Quote: it's good that you've clarified this for me because otherwise i might have thought you were.
i knew it would happen. that's why i wrote it.
Quote: it's strange that there are still people who admire so strongly these guys, they were so damn lonely.
i usually tend to admire more humane people.
what is more humane? why do you think that your "humane people" are more worthy of admiration that people that i hold in great esteem? do you think that your more human people did more for the humanity than those who were so "damn lonely"? is not loneliness a sign of a great soul, a deep mind, an inquiring spirit? those who are lonely are lonely because they are different and they distance themselves from society because they find no happiness in being around ordinary people. they strive for more and better. |
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Zapper
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Oceano, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: What makes a nation successful? |
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Eonve wrote:
i would contend that the value of this one depends on the social constructs/habits of the society. cause on one hand we have countries like Britain and Japan who have reached a very high level of success and development with very little natural resource. in a sense, that was one of the factors that triggered their expansion and development.
Yup. If you don't have the natural resources you might as well conquer and suppress another society. I guess that's a remarkable way to expand and develop your empire.
Britain - India, Guyana etc.
Japan - China
USA – Hawaii, The Philippines, Puerto Rico etc
The Netherlands - Indonesia, Suriname, Aruba etc. |
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Zapper
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Oceano, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Excuse me but the countries with the highest GDP (per capita) are;
1. Luxembourg- $48309.28 per person
2. United States - $35991.96 per person
3. Bermuda - $34893.45 per person
4. San Marino - $33429.35 per person
5. Norway- $32797.17 per person
6. Switzerland - $31891.17 per person
7. Cayman Islands - $30285.68 per person
8. Iceland - $30071.43 per person
9. Belgium - $29127.94 per person
10. Canada- $29002.91 per person
Highest crimes (per capita)
1. Dominica - 112.79 per 1000 people
2. New Zealand - 108.12 per 1000 people
3. Finland - 102.15 per 1000 people
4. Denmark - 93.64 per 1000 people
5. Chile - 90.00 per 1000 people
6. United Kingdom - 86.04 per 1000 people
7. Montserrat - 83.49 per 1000 people
8. United States - 81.55 per 1000 people
9. Netherlands - 80.84 per 1000 people
10. South Africa - 80.02 per 1000 people
To me a successful nation is defined on the happiness of their inhabitants. A truly successful nation is one in which its people live in happiness - Isn’t that’ what life is all about, the pursuit of happiness.
Happiness level - Very happy (Top 10 Countries)
Definition: Proportion of people who answered the survey question: ""Taking all things together, would you say you are: very happy, quite happy, not very happy, or not at all happy?"" by stating that they were ""Very happy""."
1. Venezuela - 55%
2. Nigeria - 45%
3. Ireland - 42%
4. Iceland - 42%
5. Netherlands - 40%
6. Philippines - 40%
7. Australia - 39%
8. United States - 39%
9. Turkey - 39%
10. Switzerland - 38%
Source: www.nationmaster.com |
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Eonve
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 754
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Zapper wrote: Excuse me but the countries with the highest GDP (per capita) are;
1. Luxembourg- $48309.28 per person
the mighty luxembourg. we, ignorant fools, thought that the US was the most successful nation in the world, but it turns out that Luxembourgians have taken over and we have lost to them our status.
come on, how f***ing pathetic is that? that country does not even have normal people any more.
Quote: To me a successful nation is defined on the happiness of their inhabitants. A truly successful nation is one in which its people live in happiness - Isn’t that’ what life is all about, the pursuit of happiness.
happiness and success are way different. they rarely go together. sorry man, but you got it wrong. |
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Secondary Oak
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 3393
Location: Haifa
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Zapper wrote: Happiness level - Very happy (Top 10 Countries)
Definition: Proportion of people who answered the survey question: ""Taking all things together, would you say you are: very happy, quite happy, not very happy, or not at all happy?"" by stating that they were ""Very happy""."
1. Venezuela - 55%
2. Nigeria - 45%
3. Ireland - 42%
4. Iceland - 42%
5. Netherlands - 40%
6. Philippines - 40%
7. Australia - 39%
8. United States - 39%
9. Turkey - 39%
10. Switzerland - 38%
Source: www.nationmaster.com
That's not a relative poll... meaning, people don't say "I'm happier than other nations' people", they just say "I'm happy". A poor family in Nigeria might lead a happy life, without even knowing about good hygiene, lifespan over 60 and low birth mortality rates, for example.
It's a cool site, though. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Quote: Quote:
To me a successful nation is defined on the happiness of their inhabitants. A truly successful nation is one in which its people live in happiness - Isn’t that’ what life is all about, the pursuit of happiness.
happiness and success are way different. they rarely go together. sorry man, but you got it wrong.
You live a little and then get back to me on that. :-D |
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