Political Crossfire Forums

Rambler · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 2 Location: Kazakstan

Hello!

What do you think about Kazakstan? (the Former Soviet Republic)
Will support West and especially USA against Russian’s influence and tyranny in this country? Like it was in Ukraine.

all about Kazakstan:
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/central_asia/kazakstan/
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kz.html

caucasia · Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: answer

Kazakstan needs a democratic election.I do believe that the process in Ukraine will show up in all former Soviet republics and Kazakstan with a new government could be the most powerfull country in Central Asia.

renwan · Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:07 am Post subject:

Kzakhstan and all central asian nations that were former CCP were created by bolsheviks, you own us all you have, and you side with the Money, pathetic sell outs.
Who made you literate? Industrialized? Educated? Rentable? we the soviet during the Stalin era, and you are a sell out.

SLAVA CCCP!

The_Right_Honourable · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 682 Location: UK (mostly)

renwan wrote: Kzakhstan and all central asian nations that were former CCP were created by bolsheviks, you own us all you have, and you side with the Money, pathetic sell outs.
Who made you literate? Industrialized? Educated? Rentable? we the soviet during the Stalin era, and you are a sell out.

SLAVA CCCP!

They would have done it themselves if they hadnt have been conquered by Russia. They had no choice. Its not like they betrayed the ideals they had actually chosen!

Like most ex-soviet states corruption, state control of media and such are problems. Hopefully its strategic importance will not make the US blind to any changes that might be needed and so the country could change and grow.

My knowledge of Kazakstan is very limited to be honest.

emmorris · Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject:

renwan wrote: Kzakhstan and all central asian nations that were former CCP were created by bolsheviks, you own us all you have, and you side with the Money, pathetic sell outs.
Who made you literate? Industrialized? Educated? Rentable? we the soviet during the Stalin era, and you are a sell out.

SLAVA CCCP!

Don't forget all the other things the USSR gave to the world:

-More than 20 million murdered men, women and children. Mass graves are still being unearthed.

-Gulags

-"Leninism", the violent form of Communism

-Oppression, fear, starvation...

-An economic mess

So, yes, thank you for educating, housing (using that term loosely), providing unsafe working conditions and ultimately death.

Rambler wrote: Hello!

What do you think about Kazakstan? (the Former Soviet Republic)
Will support West and especially USA against Russian’s influence and tyranny in this country? Like it was in Ukraine.

Welcome to the board! I admit I didn't really know much about Kazakstan, but the links were interesting. I'd like to think the US would support any democratic government, especially countries that were formerly under the influence of the USSR.

Is Russia still trying to control the political situation in Kazakstan? I know Putin trys to appear on the side of democracy, but I wouldn't trust him.

renwan · Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:56 am Post subject:

and it gave us education which looks like you have no f***ing clue what is it.

Quote: -More than 20 million murdered men, women and children. Mass graves are still being unearthed.

-Gulags

-"Leninism", the violent form of Communism

-Oppression, fear, starvation...

-An economic mess

20 Mil? Laughable bulls**t

Leninism, the ideology that made 250 Mil eprsons stop being exploited and exploiters and became the owner of themselevs and their work places.

What is a Gulag? that is a western term which is a unreal and laughable fatc

Opression? Laughable

Fear?Pathetic

Starvation? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Economic Mess? dream on

Idiots the Russian Empire conquered a piece of land that in 1917 and with the communist revolt was letf independent and under anarchy, communists from their own lands craetd all those states and Voluntarilly joined the RSFSR in 1922, the people was from there, noone forced them, it was a voluntarily revolt, how can you be so f***ing Ignorant?

emmorris · Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:46 am Post subject:

renwan wrote: and it gave us education which looks like you have no f***ing clue what is it.

Quote: -More than 20 million murdered men, women and children. Mass graves are still being unearthed.

-Gulags

-"Leninism", the violent form of Communism

-Oppression, fear, starvation...

-An economic mess

20 Mil? Laughable bulls**t

Leninism, the ideology that made 250 Mil eprsons stop being exploited and exploiters and became the owner of themselevs and their work places.

What is a Gulag? that is a western term which is a unreal and laughable fatc

Opression? Laughable

Fear?Pathetic

Starvation? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Economic Mess? dream on

Idiots the Russian Empire conquered a piece of land that in 1917 and with the communist revolt was letf independent and under anarchy, communists from their own lands craetd all those states and Voluntarilly joined the RSFSR in 1922, the people was from there, noone forced them, it was a voluntarily revolt, how can you be so f***ing Ignorant?

Are you honestly going to ignore the millions of people who were murdered under communism? Really? The USSR's education was very good, but so was the propaganda. Just in case you haven't ventured outside your little world in the past ten years, let me fill you in. The Soviet Union killed people. Yes, it gave them a nice education, but that isn't worth much when a person lives in constant fear. The death toll of communism as well as the prison camps have been well documented and trying to deny it is like denying the Holocaust. Talk to anyone who live in the USSR, you'll hear stories of empty shelves, a police state and rock hard bread. It might be a good idea to actually know something about the USSR before you look like any more of an idiot.

renwan · Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:50 am Post subject:

documented by? the Gulag Archipleago isnt a source, my father was a soldier in WWII and a comissar afterwards, you can check the Moscow documents, the maximum of people killed during the Stalin era was 700K and they were criminals, the Nazis killed 13 Million russians! we didnt kill ourselevs for the sake of god! thus you have been fullfiled with western propaganda, i remember going to Europe and US in the 70s and been told that WE the Soviets ha dto stand in line for food, that we would be shot if we would criticize the gov, and other BS like that

dude i am from there, my family is from there, what do you want to teach me?

emmorris · Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:38 am Post subject:

renwan wrote: documented by? the Gulag Archipleago isnt a source, my father was a soldier in WWII and a comissar afterwards, you can check the Moscow documents, the maximum of people killed during the Stalin era was 700K and they were criminals, the Nazis killed 13 Million russians! we didnt kill ourselevs for the sake of god! thus you have been fullfiled with western propaganda, i remember going to Europe and US in the 70s and been told that WE the Soviets ha dto stand in line for food, that we would be shot if we would criticize the gov, and other BS like that

dude i am from there, my family is from there, what do you want to teach me?

I have multiple friends who lived in the USSR and Ukraine. Are you denying that Stalin starved the people in Ukraine? That political prisoners were killed in camps? That mass graves are still being unearthed? I am fully aware of the destruction Hitler caused in the USSR, but the death toll of those murdered under communism is a commonly accepted fact. Are you also going to say the Holocaust didn't happen? Was that western propaganda as well?

timmtc · Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 1382 Location: Vancouver Canada

Renwan you're a huge idiot, I hope you stop posting.

logic-rules · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1816 Location: MINNEAPOLIS

Kazakhstan has already made a huge contribution to the west: Borat

http://www.avoidinglife.com/index.php/new/2005/01/13/borat_videos

DavidXV · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 9828

renwan wrote: documented by? the Gulag Archipleago isnt a source, my father was a soldier in WWII and a comissar afterwards, you can check the Moscow documents, the maximum of people killed during the Stalin era was 700K and they were criminals, the Nazis killed 13 Million russians! we didnt kill ourselevs for the sake of god! thus you have been fullfiled with western propaganda, i remember going to Europe and US in the 70s and been told that WE the Soviets ha dto stand in line for food, that we would be shot if we would criticize the gov, and other BS like that

dude i am from there, my family is from there, what do you want to teach me? You know, pretending it never happened, is not going to make it go away. Western propaganda? What about the witnesses and the mountain of archived evidence? You do realize that you are making a complete ass out of yourself with this ridiculous claim, don't you? Do you know the name of the Russian that stopped the revelers from setting fire to the archives durring their first hours of freedom, saving the most important segment of world history in the 20th century, for everyone to read? You should learn his name, he's not just a national hero... he is a World Hero.

smirnoff · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 3514

renwan wrote: documented by? the Gulag Archipleago isnt a source, my father was a soldier in WWII and a comissar afterwards, you can check the Moscow documents, the maximum of people killed during the Stalin era was 700K and they were criminals, the Nazis killed 13 Million russians! we didnt kill ourselevs for the sake of god! thus you have been fullfiled with western propaganda, i remember going to Europe and US in the 70s and been told that WE the Soviets ha dto stand in line for food, that we would be shot if we would criticize the gov, and other BS like that

dude i am from there, my family is from there, what do you want to teach me?

Actually the nazis killed 20+ million citizens of the USSR. I hope the 700k you are referring to is a statistic for Kazakstan alone.

Whilst I do agree that the USSR did help somewhat to industrialize (and devide) Turkestan, the environmental and cultural damage they inflicted at the very least makes it an uneasy balance. Well better with the USSR than with China or some Islamic empire I suppose, although independence would've been the best for all former USSR nations.

renwan · Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:14 am Post subject:

700K are the total of the killed during the Stalin time in all the USSRa, and all were prisinoers and gultiy of stuff.

smirnoff · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 3514

the 10 million killed in Ukraine in two of Stalins engineered famines 1920's-1930's would beg to differ with that figure. Testbed of "harmful nationalism" ...

renwan · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:01 am Post subject:

thats why the Ukranian parliamnet voted 113 against ant 114 for(Bushenkos party) regarding the truth of the famine and anyone over 60 years can proove that the famine is a f***ing hoax.

DavidXV,people like you always made me laugh. Were you brainwashed from the moment of your birth that you still seem to believe fairytales about Stalin? Total population was 150'000'000, including 68'000'000 men. And so, 40'000'000 of them were killed. And the surviving ones were infants that fought against Nazis four years later, I guess? Yes, your position is quite probable and reasonable.

smirnoff · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 3514

The Ukrainian parliament has since that time been "reformed" ... you cant erase graves renwan

renwan · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject:

i cant erase graves that dont exist.

smirnoff · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 3514

true ... but what does this have to do with the USSR's slaugher of Ukrainian??

Oh just so you know the CCCP dosent exists anymore ... mite wanna change your location

Anson · Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 877

emmorris wrote: Are you honestly going to ignore the millions of people who were murdered under communism? Really? The USSR's education was very good, but so was the propaganda. Just in case you haven't ventured outside your little world in the past ten years, let me fill you in. The Soviet Union killed people. Yes, it gave them a nice education, but that isn't worth much when a person lives in constant fear. The death toll of communism as well as the prison camps have been well documented and trying to deny it is like denying the Holocaust. Talk to anyone who live in the USSR, you'll hear stories of empty shelves, a police state and rock hard bread. It might be a good idea to actually know something about the USSR before you look like any more of an idiot.

Communism and the USSR are not interchangeable words. I'd be careful with how you use them in each context. Furthermore, the high murder totals during the Soviet years in Russia do not reflect anything about communism, it moreso points to the fact that Russia was not exactly the most progressive nation prior to the 1917 revolution as far as humanitarian rights are concerned, and this trend continued after the revolution.