Political Crossfire Forums

[JNG]

At that point in the war, the Japanese were not viewed as human being but as plainly "the enemy." We dropped 2 bombs so that victory was a sure thing. There was not too much concern for human casualties at that point in time.

[SilveryMinnow]

What has been said about the Japanese unwillingness to surrender is true. After the War, there were propaganda films showing average citizens by the hundred's of thousands training for a Guerilla War against the U.S. troops. Preparing to fight to the death against the Invader. I also cite the incident of hundreds of Japanese throwing themselves off the cliffs at Okinawa. Men, women, and children, rather than give themselves over to American troops.
So badly had the Americans been portrayed by the Japanese propaganda.

A current similarity today. Saddam Husseins demands to fight to the last man. Although he himself surrendered readily.

The Bomb was necessary to save "AMERICAN LIVES," the Japanese were in fact the enemy. In the words of General Patton, "You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win the war by making the other dumb S.O.B. die for his country. The Soviets were also planning to invade Europe after the other AXIS powers had been defeated. This is why the Allied nations began a second front in Europe against Germany. From the Allied position in Italy, there would have been nothing to stop Russia from moving Westward after the German defeat. This is an obvious fact.
If the bomb also detered the Soviets from conquest, then so much the better.

War is not nice. "It is a good thing that war is so terrible, lest we become too fond of it." -Robert E. Lee.

[FCTE]

If you want to see an outstanding documentary on the A-Bomb, the history and timeline of it, the tests we did, and it's effects. Rent "Trinity and Beyond" if you can find it. The DVD also has a 3D version on it, but it's really lame and doesn't work very well.

[jawsome]

i recommend looking at the photographs of the book called '100 suns'

100 pictures of 100 nuclear bomb tests. absolutely terrifying.

[SilveryMinnow]

Nuclear weapons are meant to be terrifying. The scientist that built them did so under the belief that their existance would "end all wars."

Currently under the Mutual Assured Deployment and Destruction Treaty, (MADD). No nuclear armed nation would dare to use Nuclear Weapons as the result would mean the end of the Earth. Each person sits upon 32,000 lbs. of Dynamite. With nuclear weapons in such abundance, it would seem unecessary for America to have to provide for such a large defense. :think:

The idea also of "limited exchange," is not feasible as well. Who determines when the use of nuclear weapons is enough? How many dead would it take, and how much of the ecosystem would have to be destroyed before those with their fingers on the button would say no more?

There is a consolation to the ownership of Nuclear weapons though, in that the nations that have them can be assured of their continued existance without threat of invasion, as the result of such a conquest would eliminate the human race.

[Arwon]

"Limited exchange" obviously isn't feasible for the superpowers in conflict with each other, but I'm not so sure about Pakistan, India, Israel, South Africa, North Korea, Iran, etc... It's entirely feasible one of the lesser nuclear powers could find a way to use nukes to their advantage, without getting themselves completely annihilated in the process. Not saying this is likely to occur, but it's a lot more feasible and rela a possibility than a war between two of the big nclear superpowers.

[Dutchguy]

Ok, I'm deviating a bit here, but I just wanted to correct some statements which are not nessecarily wrong, but a bit incomplete at best.

Quote: I also cite the incident of hundreds of Japanese throwing themselves off the cliffs at Okinawa. Men, women, and children, rather than give themselves over to American troops.
So badly had the Americans been portrayed by the Japanese propaganda.

This probably had less to do with the way Americans were portrayed than they did with the Japanese culture of honour and Bushido (still very much alive at that time);
which basically meant that there was no greater dishonour than losing in battle and the only thing to do if you did lose, was to commit seppuku, ritual suicide. Ofcourse, this only goes for the commanders in charge, but it has been suggested that many Japanese (Okinawans) were so ashamed by their defeat that they felt the need to commit suicide.

Quote: This is why the Allied nations began a second front in Europe against Germany

While it may well have played a role, the reason the second front was opened was because the first one simply wasn't progressing.

[SilveryMinnow]

It was the code of Bushido that aided the American military to locate and eliminate Japanese positions. When a Japanese soldier surrendered he became a "non-person," under the code. This allowed P.O.W's to cut their alliance with the homeland, and look to joining their captors. Part of the suicides may have been committed under the code of Bushido, but propaganda probably helped as well.

It was Stalin in fact that demanded the Allied powers begin a second front against Europe, in order to draw some of the military power of the Germans from the Eastern Front. Italy was smashed, and the only other means of invasion for the Allies would have been a slow progression through the Balkans. This did not mean that it would not be possible for the Allies to continue their assault against the AXIS. The European Wall, a defense designed by Erwin Rommel was considered to be impenetrable, and the subsequent invasion of Normandy almost went horribly wrong. The Airborne divisions had been scattered, and before the landing force had almost made its way inland, Rommel had two armored divisions already moved into position 13 miles from the landing area. There is no where to retreat for a force with the ocean behind it.

Fortunately for the Allies Hitler was in complete control of all German government agencies, and called back the counter-attack at Normandy. The rest is history.

(On a second consideration, Stalins demands may have been designed to stop the Allies from advancing north so close to the former Russian border, thus even cutting shorter the amount of territory that could be claimed by the soviets. So Stalin may have viewed a second invasion as the re-direction of two large military forces.)

[Beyond The Call of Duty]

What if the one bomb didn't work? at least you have a backup a-bomb

[Wizard From Oz]

Just to clarify a couple of miss understandings about the bombing of Japan.

President Truman at the time said all responsibilty for the dropping of the bombs laid with him. Full stop. He said let history judge me as it will.

The Japanese where aware vaguely of the bombs. A diplomatic note was passed through Switzerland suggesting an opening of peace negotiations would stop them being dropped.

It was suggested at the time that the Japanese delegates then in Switzland be invited to the US to witness a detonation. It was decided not to do this because of the fear the device would not work

Hiroshima was chosen because of the lack of bomb damage on the city. Also the allies suspected that Hiroshima castle was a central control point for the up comming defense of the home islands (they were right) Hence a lot of high ranking military officers would witness the attack.

Nagoya was chosen because it lay in a shallow depression and the US wanted see what difference the terrain would make to the damage pattern.

The Japanese government showed no interest in surrendering after the first or second bomb. It was only the Soviet attacks that swayed the Emperor to instuct his cabinet to sue for peace. Even then a military coop occured, which was put down before it could spread.

The Japanese would have continued to fight. The propaganda machine had reached such a stage that the average Japanese feared Amercians who were best described as monsterous barbarians. The Emperor used this exact phrase when discussing the bombing of the two cities. It was hoped that by surrendering when they did. There would be no occupational force.

The long term heath effects on both cities was not anticpated by the Americans when the bombs were dropped. In fact when the first reports of radiation burns reached the US - It was assumed to be a ploy by the Japanese. An excellent book. Day of the two suns, is the biography of a Japanese doctor trying to cope with and treat the injuries from the bomb on Hiroshima.

Moral issues aside, dropping the two bombs probably saved a lot of pain down the line. These weapons were mere firecrackers compared to weapons even ten years later. The world saw what destruction could occur, and I am sure it led to much hestiation during the Cuban Missle crisis.